RAC complaint - serious car damage

Ectophile

AdrianC said:

No, you simply cannot say that they have.

You cannot prove the engine was terminally damaged by negligence on his part.
It may very well have been terminally damaged before he even arrived, or at the very least beyond reasonable economic repair.
His suggestion may well have been perfectly reasonable on the information available at the time. No fault codes, no indication of anything imminently terminal.
They are only liable if both of those are demonstrably untrue.

Look at the current pandemic situation - RAC policy will be to transport the car only where absolutely necessary, because having you in the van with the patrol is a covid risk. And that's on top of the extra time taken to put the car onto the dolly and tow it.

Even if they are liable, they do not have to "put you back in the position".
IF a court finds they are liable due to negligence, then they may be ordered to cover the difference between the position you are in now, and the position you would have been in if they had not turned up. And that's the difference in value between the car with an engine with a serious engine fault that may well render it beyond economic repair - and one with a definitely terminal engine fault. 

What was it worth, the minute before he arrived? Realistically...? eBay spares and repair value.
What is it worth now? eBay spares and repair value.

You don't need to prove that you're right in a civil court.  You only need to persuade the judge that, on the balance of probabilities, you are probably right.  It's a much lower bar.

But it will still need a report from an expert saying how they think the engine failed, and whether continuing to drive it made the engine beyond repair.

williamgriffin

Ectophile said:

AdrianC said:

No, you simply cannot say that they have.

You cannot prove the engine was terminally damaged by negligence on his part.
It may very well have been terminally damaged before he even arrived, or at the very least beyond reasonable economic repair.
His suggestion may well have been perfectly reasonable on the information available at the time. No fault codes, no indication of anything imminently terminal.
They are only liable if both of those are demonstrably untrue.

Look at the current pandemic situation - RAC policy will be to transport the car only where absolutely necessary, because having you in the van with the patrol is a covid risk. And that's on top of the extra time taken to put the car onto the dolly and tow it.

Even if they are liable, they do not have to "put you back in the position".
IF a court finds they are liable due to negligence, then they may be ordered to cover the difference between the position you are in now, and the position you would have been in if they had not turned up. And that's the difference in value between the car with an engine with a serious engine fault that may well render it beyond economic repair - and one with a definitely terminal engine fault. 

What was it worth, the minute before he arrived? Realistically...? eBay spares and repair value.
What is it worth now? eBay spares and repair value.

You don't need to prove that you're right in a civil court.  You only need to persuade the judge that, on the balance of probabilities, you are probably right.  It's a much lower bar.

But it will still need a report from an expert saying how they think the engine failed, and whether continuing to drive it made the engine beyond repair.

Isn't persuading a judge proving it? Just the burden of proof is lower as it's not beyond reasonable doubt.

Tanjawi

No covid risk as when the car was eventually towed, I was in the driver's seat and he was in his van towing me. Also, if RAC are concerned about Covid, their patrolman did not have a mask on and had no issues sticking his face in the car to look at the dash when it stalled nor when he turned up. If we were to talk about the patrolman a little more, he even noted the wrong mileage of the car on the report which RAC complaints were quick to try and use against me saying the car had been driven when I was saying it's a non-starter. His credibility is not the best. I'd be interested to know a little more about him, his experience, his training, any previous complaints against him but I'll do that eventually if they decide to go to court. 

They are in breach of the contract which states and I quote: "Section C – Recovery 

(optional – see your schedule)

Covered

If we are unable to repair the vehicle under section 

A (Roadside) or Section B (At Home) we will recover 

the vehicle and passengers from the breakdown 

location to a single destination of your choice within 

the UK. For long distances we may use more than one 

recovery vehicle.

Please note: you must arrange recovery with us 

while we are at the scene."

As Williamgriffin said, I'll see them in court cause they owe me an engine. 

Grumpy_chap

Tanjawi said:

I'll see them in court cause they owe me an engine. 

So far, you've not been able to set out the case sufficiently clearly to be persuasive of the readers of the thread and the small-claims court plus the RAC lawyers will be far more tough to crack than us humble lot.  I hope this thread has given you some good food-for-thought that helps you present matters in a more convincing manner so that you can achieve the success you feel you deserve.

Good luck, and please come back to us with the outcome once this process has comcluded.

George_Michael

Tanjawi said:

As Williamgriffin said, I'll see them in court cause they owe me an engine. 

If it gets to court and if a judge agrees with you, all the RAC will owe you is an engine with about 110,000 miles on it and which idles rough, judders and makes a knocking noise.

mattyprice4004

Pointless chasing this, as all you'll get is the value of a knackered engine (which yours was when they turned up). 
It could be that the injector was showing as faulty due to the tip of it being battered with bits of piston already - incorrect flow due to the tip being mullered then shows on the diagnostics. There is no diagnostic (apart from disassembly and the Mk1 eyeball) that would point straight to a damaged piston. 

This isn't a battle I fancy your chances on - at best you'll be awarded the value of a 110,000 mile engine that has a knackered injector (which isn't much). 

williamgriffin

Tanjawi said:

No covid risk as when the car was eventually towed, I was in the driver's seat and he was in his van towing me. Also, if RAC are concerned about Covid, their patrolman did not have a mask on and had no issues sticking his face in the car to look at the dash when it stalled nor when he turned up. If we were to talk about the patrolman a little more, he even noted the wrong mileage of the car on the report which RAC complaints were quick to try and use against me saying the car had been driven when I was saying it's a non-starter. His credibility is not the best. I'd be interested to know a little more about him, his experience, his training, any previous complaints against him but I'll do that eventually if they decide to go to court. 

They are in breach of the contract which states and I quote: "Section C – Recovery 

(optional – see your schedule)

Covered

If we are unable to repair the vehicle under section 

A (Roadside) or Section B (At Home) we will recover 

the vehicle and passengers from the breakdown 

location to a single destination of your choice within 

the UK. For long distances we may use more than one 

recovery vehicle.

Please note: you must arrange recovery with us 

while we are at the scene."

As Williamgriffin said, I'll see them in court cause they owe me an engine. 

You broke down and they recovered you to the garage you were heading to. Where's the breach, did you want to go somewhere else?

Tanjawi

williamgriffin said:

Tanjawi said:

No covid risk as when the car was eventually towed, I was in the driver's seat and he was in his van towing me. Also, if RAC are concerned about Covid, their patrolman did not have a mask on and had no issues sticking his face in the car to look at the dash when it stalled nor when he turned up. If we were to talk about the patrolman a little more, he even noted the wrong mileage of the car on the report which RAC complaints were quick to try and use against me saying the car had been driven when I was saying it's a non-starter. His credibility is not the best. I'd be interested to know a little more about him, his experience, his training, any previous complaints against him but I'll do that eventually if they decide to go to court. 

They are in breach of the contract which states and I quote: "Section C – Recovery 

(optional – see your schedule)

Covered

If we are unable to repair the vehicle under section 

A (Roadside) or Section B (At Home) we will recover 

the vehicle and passengers from the breakdown 

location to a single destination of your choice within 

the UK. For long distances we may use more than one 

recovery vehicle.

Please note: you must arrange recovery with us 

while we are at the scene."

As Williamgriffin said, I'll see them in court cause they owe me an engine. 

You broke down and they recovered you to the garage you were heading to. Where's the breach, did you want to go somewhere else?

They didn't recover me. They escorted me half way to the garage in a car that should not have been driven. I didn't call them to escort me. Breach, Negligence and they didn't show responsibility. 

Analogy: Elderly person walking to the shops twists their ankle. They call 999 and ambulance turns up. Ambulance staff carry out initial checks and suggest to the elderly man it could be an overstretched tendon but it's fine to walk to the hospital a couple hundred yards down the road but they'll follow him just in case. The elderly man falls again after a hundred yards cause the tendon has now snapped and is torn. Ambulance staff decide to put him in the back and drive him to hospital. When elderly man tries to complain for the further damage he's told that because of his age, his tendons were already weak and on their way out anyways. 

I know we can't compare humans and cars but it's just an analogy. 

As was mentioned above, your comments definitely help me see things from a different angle. 

I've instructed the legal advisors and I'll let them deal with it from here. 

Jumblebumble

George_Michael said:

Tanjawi said:

As Williamgriffin said, I'll see them in court cause they owe me an engine. 

If it gets to court and if a judge agrees with you, all the RAC will owe you is an engine with about 110,000 miles on it and which idles rough, judders and makes a knocking noise.

And is just about to seize.

williamgriffin

Tanjawi said:

williamgriffin said:

Tanjawi said:

No covid risk as when the car was eventually towed, I was in the driver's seat and he was in his van towing me. Also, if RAC are concerned about Covid, their patrolman did not have a mask on and had no issues sticking his face in the car to look at the dash when it stalled nor when he turned up. If we were to talk about the patrolman a little more, he even noted the wrong mileage of the car on the report which RAC complaints were quick to try and use against me saying the car had been driven when I was saying it's a non-starter. His credibility is not the best. I'd be interested to know a little more about him, his experience, his training, any previous complaints against him but I'll do that eventually if they decide to go to court. 

They are in breach of the contract which states and I quote: "Section C – Recovery 

(optional – see your schedule)

Covered

If we are unable to repair the vehicle under section 

A (Roadside) or Section B (At Home) we will recover 

the vehicle and passengers from the breakdown 

location to a single destination of your choice within 

the UK. For long distances we may use more than one 

recovery vehicle.

Please note: you must arrange recovery with us 

while we are at the scene."

As Williamgriffin said, I'll see them in court cause they owe me an engine. 

You broke down and they recovered you to the garage you were heading to. Where's the breach, did you want to go somewhere else?

They didn't recover me. They escorted me half way to the garage in a car that should not have been driven. I didn't call them to escort me. Breach, Negligence and they didn't show responsibility. 

Analogy: Elderly person walking to the shops twists their ankle. They call 999 and ambulance turns up. Ambulance staff carry out initial checks and suggest to the elderly man it could be an overstretched tendon but it's fine to walk to the hospital a couple hundred yards down the road but they'll follow him just in case. The elderly man falls again after a hundred yards cause the tendon has now snapped and is torn. Ambulance staff decide to put him in the back and drive him to hospital. When elderly man tries to complain for the further damage he's told that because of his age, his tendons were already weak and on their way out anyways. 

I know we can't compare humans and cars but it's just an analogy. 

As was mentioned above, your comments definitely help me see things from a different angle. 

I've instructed the legal advisors and I'll let them deal with it from here. 

They did recovery you, they towed you to the garage. 

You drove from your home and then broke down. Isn't that correct?