RAC complaint - serious car damage

AdrianC

Tanjawi said:

For me it's clear. If the RAC had simply towed the car to the garage then any damage found is purely my responsibility. 

No, any damage ON TOP of what was there already. IF they were negligent.

And what's their maximum liability? It's a 110k mile C30. Probably £2.5k-worth at most, in good condition.
But it wasn't. It had a serious, potentially terminal engine fault. Probably £500-worth on eBay, spares or repair.
Now? It has a terminal engine fault. What's the difference...?

Ectophile

AdrianC said:

Tanjawi said:

For me it's clear. If the RAC had simply towed the car to the garage then any damage found is purely my responsibility. 

No, any damage ON TOP of what was there already. IF they were negligent.

And what's their maximum liability? It's a 110k mile C30. Probably £2.5k-worth at most, in good condition.
But it wasn't. It had a serious, potentially terminal engine fault. Probably £500-worth on eBay, spares or repair.
Now? It has a terminal engine fault. What's the difference...?

The difference would be the difference in value between an old car with a repairable fault, and scrap value.  That could still be a few hundred pounds.

AdrianC

Ectophile said:

AdrianC said:

Tanjawi said:

For me it's clear. If the RAC had simply towed the car to the garage then any damage found is purely my responsibility. 

No, any damage ON TOP of what was there already. IF they were negligent.

And what's their maximum liability? It's a 110k mile C30. Probably £2.5k-worth at most, in good condition.
But it wasn't. It had a serious, potentially terminal engine fault. Probably £500-worth on eBay, spares or repair.
Now? It has a terminal engine fault. What's the difference...?

The difference would be the difference in value between an old car with a repairable fault, and scrap value.  That could still be a few hundred pounds.

Was the fault economically repairable? It may well have been cheapest to put another engine in.
Now? It definitely needs another engine in.

Tanjawi

Surely replacing an injector or even 4 injectors would be cheaper than replacing an engine. Volvo quote £5K + VAT just for the engine. Other garages quote £3.5K to £4K for a reconditioned engine incl labour.

williamgriffin

Tanjawi said:

Surely replacing an injector or even 4 injectors would be cheaper than replacing an engine. Volvo quote £5K + VAT just for the engine. Other garages quote £3.5K to £4K for a reconditioned engine incl labour.

Get your mechanic to write you a report and get them to agree to attend court if required and issue court proceedings against the RAC. You think yo have a good case so go for it. 

AdrianC

Tanjawi said:

Surely replacing an injector or even 4 injectors would be cheaper than replacing an engine. Volvo quote £5K + VAT just for the engine. Other garages quote £3.5K to £4K for a reconditioned engine incl labour.

Which, clearly, writes the car off - so maximum exposure is ~£2.5k value of the car before the issue.

But, yes, modern diesel injectors can be ferociously expensive. New injectors for this engine can be £200+ each.
https://www.pfjones.co.uk/diesel-fuel-pumps-and-injectors/diesel-injectors/volvo-injectors/volvo-c30-diesel-fuel-injectors.html
IF the problem really was just an injector. Which is unlikely.
Just an injector is unlikely to break a piston up in a mile and a half.

Even if it was, and 1.5 miles really was enough to trash the engine, then when did the problem start?
What internal damage was already present when the symptoms were first noticed and RAC were called?

Tanjawi

AdrianC said:

Tanjawi said:

Surely replacing an injector or even 4 injectors would be cheaper than replacing an engine. Volvo quote £5K + VAT just for the engine. Other garages quote £3.5K to £4K for a reconditioned engine incl labour.

Which, clearly, writes the car off - so maximum exposure is ~£2.5k value of the car before the issue.

But, yes, modern diesel injectors can be ferociously expensive. New injectors for this engine can be £200+ each.
https://www.pfjones.co.uk/diesel-fuel-pumps-and-injectors/diesel-injectors/volvo-injectors/volvo-c30-diesel-fuel-injectors.html
IF the problem really was just an injector. Which is unlikely.
Just an injector is unlikely to break a piston up in a mile and a half.

Even if it was, and 1.5 miles really was enough to trash the engine, then when did the problem start?
What internal damage was already present when the symptoms were first noticed and RAC were called?

It's good to see it from that angle too. It does help me ascertain where I stand. So let's say I ask RAC to put me back in the situation I was originally in. If we could just use a time machine and rewind back to the moment RAC turn up at my address and ask me to fire up the car for a listen. RAC man states "I like to use the traditional methods" and grabs a long screwdriver to listen to the 4 injectors one by one. He then says he thinks it's number 4. He then plugs the diagnostics machine and no injector issue comes up apart from possibly a DPF that's needing a regen. 

He then tells me I could drive the car while he follows me. Ok without repeating what's being said before...

Can RAC put me back in the original position? I am happy to accept a car in my drive that is idling rough and knocking. If they can then I'll take it from there. I'll get a truck to tow it to my mechanic, he may say the engine has gone and if I decide to scrap it then it was all down to me. If he says injectors need to be changed for £1,000 then I weigh things up and take it from there. It is a cherished car which took us a while to find. It is also a nice r design, auto which are not as easy to find. End of the matter is we would not have been in this position if RAC had towed the car.

So figures, car value, previous damage etc may all be relevant but RAC have definitely put us in a worse situation and therefore have breached their duty of care.

born_again

Herzlos said:

fred246 said:

You won't get much sympathy on this forum I am afraid. Everything will be your fault. It's a bit like going to a garage. The customer is always wrong.

You can safely ignore Fred. He barges into most threads involving garages to complain but rarely has any constructive advice.
Why he does it is anyones guess, but I doubt he'll stop any time soon.

I think your being a bit harsh....
His advice on U-Tube video's is good 😉

AdrianC

No, you simply cannot say that they have.

You cannot prove the engine was terminally damaged by negligence on his part.
It may very well have been terminally damaged before he even arrived, or at the very least beyond reasonable economic repair.
His suggestion may well have been perfectly reasonable on the information available at the time. No fault codes, no indication of anything imminently terminal.
They are only liable if both of those are demonstrably untrue.

Look at the current pandemic situation - RAC policy will be to transport the car only where absolutely necessary, because having you in the van with the patrol is a covid risk. And that's on top of the extra time taken to put the car onto the dolly and tow it.

Even if they are liable, they do not have to "put you back in the position".
IF a court finds they are liable due to negligence, then they may be ordered to cover the difference between the position you are in now, and the position you would have been in if they had not turned up. And that's the difference in value between the car with an engine with a serious engine fault that may well render it beyond economic repair - and one with a definitely terminal engine fault. 

What was it worth, the minute before he arrived? Realistically...? eBay spares and repair value.
What is it worth now? eBay spares and repair value.

williamgriffin

Tanjawi said:

AdrianC said:

Tanjawi said:

Surely replacing an injector or even 4 injectors would be cheaper than replacing an engine. Volvo quote £5K + VAT just for the engine. Other garages quote £3.5K to £4K for a reconditioned engine incl labour.

Which, clearly, writes the car off - so maximum exposure is ~£2.5k value of the car before the issue.

But, yes, modern diesel injectors can be ferociously expensive. New injectors for this engine can be £200+ each.
https://www.pfjones.co.uk/diesel-fuel-pumps-and-injectors/diesel-injectors/volvo-injectors/volvo-c30-diesel-fuel-injectors.html
IF the problem really was just an injector. Which is unlikely.
Just an injector is unlikely to break a piston up in a mile and a half.

Even if it was, and 1.5 miles really was enough to trash the engine, then when did the problem start?
What internal damage was already present when the symptoms were first noticed and RAC were called?

It's good to see it from that angle too. It does help me ascertain where I stand. So let's say I ask RAC to put me back in the situation I was originally in. If we could just use a time machine and rewind back to the moment RAC turn up at my address and ask me to fire up the car for a listen. RAC man states "I like to use the traditional methods" and grabs a long screwdriver to listen to the 4 injectors one by one. He then says he thinks it's number 4. He then plugs the diagnostics machine and no injector issue comes up apart from possibly a DPF that's needing a regen. 

He then tells me I could drive the car while he follows me. Ok without repeating what's being said before...

Can RAC put me back in the original position? I am happy to accept a car in my drive that is idling rough and knocking. If they can then I'll take it from there. I'll get a truck to tow it to my mechanic, he may say the engine has gone and if I decide to scrap it then it was all down to me. If he says injectors need to be changed for £1,000 then I weigh things up and take it from there. It is a cherished car which took us a while to find. It is also a nice r design, auto which are not as easy to find. End of the matter is we would not have been in this position if RAC had towed the car.

So figures, car value, previous damage etc may all be relevant but RAC have definitely put us in a worse situation and therefore have breached their duty of care.

Do the RAC owe you a duty of care? 

You only want someone to tell you that the RAC owe you a new engine from Volvo. That isn't going to happen so see them in court and post back the result.