Dispute with wedding photographers - Covid related!

davidmcn

unholyangel said:

davidmcn said:

unholyangel said:

Sandtree said:

unholyangel said:
Op has also told us they've been advised by their solicitor it's frustrated. Given solicitors won't advise professionally without establishing the facts and they are legally qualified/trained, I wouldn't expect them to say it's frustrated unless it is. 

Firstly, do you really think that everyone that comes on here who says their solicitor has given them X advice really has spoken to a solicitor and received such advice? If they've had professional advice it would beg the question of why they subsequently want random people online's advice, especially when the solicitor has supported their case.

Secondly, having been to court many times in my former line of work and had many barristers give legal opinion which ultimately the judge didnt agree with these things are rarely purely black and white.

Therefore, if they've advised it's frustrated then we, with very few relevant facts and most posters not having any training or qualifications in law, aren't really in a position to disagree. 

For what it's worth, I'm a solicitor who is far from convinced (from the information given) that the contract with the photographer is frustrated.

Then you should see the logic in what I've said regarding not second guessing and not being in a position to disagree.

I would expect any practicing solicitor to conduct themselves in a certain way when holding themselves out professionally. Ergo I take it on faith they have given professional advice and haven't given advice without ascertaining the relevant facts. 

As suggested above, I suspect the telephone consultation was an initial (free) chat with some sketchy details and some general pointers towards the principles which might be relevant, not a please-sue-me-if-I'm-wrong piece of advice intended to be relied upon.

unholyangel

davidmcn said:

unholyangel said:

davidmcn said:

unholyangel said:

Sandtree said:

unholyangel said:
Op has also told us they've been advised by their solicitor it's frustrated. Given solicitors won't advise professionally without establishing the facts and they are legally qualified/trained, I wouldn't expect them to say it's frustrated unless it is. 

Firstly, do you really think that everyone that comes on here who says their solicitor has given them X advice really has spoken to a solicitor and received such advice? If they've had professional advice it would beg the question of why they subsequently want random people online's advice, especially when the solicitor has supported their case.

Secondly, having been to court many times in my former line of work and had many barristers give legal opinion which ultimately the judge didnt agree with these things are rarely purely black and white.

Therefore, if they've advised it's frustrated then we, with very few relevant facts and most posters not having any training or qualifications in law, aren't really in a position to disagree. 

For what it's worth, I'm a solicitor who is far from convinced (from the information given) that the contract with the photographer is frustrated.

Then you should see the logic in what I've said regarding not second guessing and not being in a position to disagree.

I would expect any practicing solicitor to conduct themselves in a certain way when holding themselves out professionally. Ergo I take it on faith they have given professional advice and haven't given advice without ascertaining the relevant facts. 

As suggested above, I suspect the telephone consultation was an initial (free) chat with some sketchy details and some general pointers towards the principles which might be relevant, not a please-sue-me-if-I'm-wrong piece of advice intended to be relied upon.

But that, again, comes down to karma on the OP for misrepresentation. As I'd have expected the solicitor (in the situation you describe) to have added some caveats or disclaimers to their advice. 

CrippsCorner

I feel I need to clarify regarding the solicitor!

This was a free phone consultation with a member of staff recommended to me by a different solicitor I'm using at the firm for a different reason (to deal with my grandma's death)

They upfront told me it could cost upwards of £3,000 for me to use them in a small claims court, so recommended I do not do that as the value was low! Also said they could write an official letter to the firm I'm disputing with, but again that would cost me £250 which is over half the value I am trying to get back.

So I took all the pointers from this conversation, and spoke to people around me I thought maybe able to help, and I was recommended Citizen's Advice, Ombudsman or Small Claims.

The reason I am posting here is for advice on how to/where to contact a relevant ombudsman to further investigate this matter, as unfortunately Citizen's Advice do not appear to getting back to me.

Thanks. 

davidmcn

CrippsCorner said:

The reason I am posting here is for advice on how to/where to contact a relevant ombudsman to further investigate this matter

Ombuds...people only apply to a small minority of potential dispute scenarios (mostly public sector or particularly heavily-regulated sectors), not wedding photographers. It's going to be determined by a court if anywhere.

Diamandis

The fact that the solicitor thought there would be an ombudsman says it all really. As already advised, your next step is sending a letter before action and taking the case to small claims court.

unholyangel

Diamandis said:

The fact that the solicitor thought there would be an ombudsman says it all really. As already advised, your next step is sending a letter before action and taking the case to small claims court.

Op didn't say the solicitor told them to go to an ombudsman.

They said they took pointers from the conversation with the solicitor, spoke to other people and was recommended ombudsman (among others). 

Sandtree

There are no official ombudsman covering photography, the official ones typically cover regulated industries or the public sector. There are a few self styled ombudsman but they really are an alternative dispute resolution service that have stuck the word ombudsman in their title and normally dont have any legal powers to enforce judgements etc.

Professional bodies can be the other option to look at but the main one for photographers is the BIPP and they only deal with matters of the quality of images (plus have a fee for asking them to look at the complaint).

So the only route is to go to court in which case its a letter before action and then issue proceedings via the Money Claim Online. Even with the free initial advice from the person that works at a solicitors (therefore could be a solicitor, paralegal or trainee) there is always an element of court being a roll of the dice however as the case will be allocated to the Small Track the financial risk is very limited.

CrippsCorner

Sandtree said:

There are no official ombudsman covering photography, the official ones typically cover regulated industries or the public sector. There are a few self styled ombudsman but they really are an alternative dispute resolution service that have stuck the word ombudsman in their title and normally dont have any legal powers to enforce judgements etc.

Professional bodies can be the other option to look at but the main one for photographers is the BIPP and they only deal with matters of the quality of images (plus have a fee for asking them to look at the complaint).

So the only route is to go to court in which case its a letter before action and then issue proceedings via the Money Claim Online. Even with the free initial advice from the person that works at a solicitors (therefore could be a solicitor, paralegal or trainee) there is always an element of court being a roll of the dice however as the case will be allocated to the Small Track the financial risk is very limited.

I'm not really looking for a photographer specialist to discuss with, more of a consumer rights ombudsmen. I guess what I want doesn't really exist?

Thanks for the Money Claim Online recommendation. Google has brought me here: Make a money claim online - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Is this worth doing for my situation, or perhaps emailing Civil Money Claims (CMC) contactocmc@justice.gov.uk first?

Is the above what eventually takes you to court? If so can anyone explain the exact process... would I have to physically be there? Give statements etc? Could I lose further money?

Thanks for all your help so far.

Undervalued

CrippsCorner said:

Sandtree said:

There are no official ombudsman covering photography, the official ones typically cover regulated industries or the public sector. There are a few self styled ombudsman but they really are an alternative dispute resolution service that have stuck the word ombudsman in their title and normally dont have any legal powers to enforce judgements etc.

Professional bodies can be the other option to look at but the main one for photographers is the BIPP and they only deal with matters of the quality of images (plus have a fee for asking them to look at the complaint).

So the only route is to go to court in which case its a letter before action and then issue proceedings via the Money Claim Online. Even with the free initial advice from the person that works at a solicitors (therefore could be a solicitor, paralegal or trainee) there is always an element of court being a roll of the dice however as the case will be allocated to the Small Track the financial risk is very limited.

I'm not really looking for a photographer specialist to discuss with, more of a consumer rights ombudsmen. I guess what I want doesn't really exist?

Thanks for the Money Claim Online recommendation. Google has brought me here: Make a money claim online - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Is this worth doing for my situation, or perhaps emailing Civil Money Claims (CMC) contactocmc@justice.gov.uk first?

Is the above what eventually takes you to court? If so can anyone explain the exact process... would I have to physically be there? Give statements etc? Could I lose further money?

Thanks for all your help so far.

Which people have been trying to tell you for the last three pages!

As has also been said, this all comes down to whether the contract has been "frustrated" or not. If it has you might be successful in getting your deposit back, if it hasn't then you won't win. In the latter case then photographer would still have a duty to make reasonable efforts to minimise his losses (i.e try and find another client). If he does that then you would be entitled to at least some of your money back, but the photographer could still deduct reasonable expenses from your deposit.

For what it is worth, based on what has been posted here, I am far from convinced that the contract has been frustrated although I can see arguments both ways.

gettingtheresometime

I might (& probably am) talking a load of rubbish but isn't the OP's situation comparable to one where a bride & groom have cancelled the wedding completely and are asking (I assume) for the deposit back?