Dispute with wedding photographers - Covid related!

Sandtree

Presumably you chose the photographer and venue because you liked them both, have you spoken to the venue about another alternative date if the third one they've offered you doesn't work for all parties?

davidmcn

unholyangel said:

Diamandis said:

Personally I'm not sure it would count as frustration. The photographer could still take photos and maintain social distancing guidelines and had allocated two days to you in order to do this (but I am not a lawyer). If your solicitor feels otherwise then maybe allowing them to handle it is the best course, otherwise your other option is small claims court which you can do by yourself.

The wedding cannot go ahead due to law

Depends where and when we're talking about - it could be they've cancelled because they didn't like restrictions on guest numbers / permitted travel / venue availability, rather than because they couldn't possibly have a wedding on that date.

unholyangel

davidmcn said:

unholyangel said:

Diamandis said:

Personally I'm not sure it would count as frustration. The photographer could still take photos and maintain social distancing guidelines and had allocated two days to you in order to do this (but I am not a lawyer). If your solicitor feels otherwise then maybe allowing them to handle it is the best course, otherwise your other option is small claims court which you can do by yourself.

The wedding cannot go ahead due to law

Depends where and when we're talking about - it could be they've cancelled because they didn't like restrictions on guest numbers / permitted travel / venue availability, rather than because they couldn't possibly have a wedding on that date.

Well OP said due to lockdown rather than social distancing but your argument is a bit like saying if you order a Bugatti but the law changed so they can't provide a Bugatti legally, that the contract isn't frustrated or in breach as long as they provide any other car to you. 

That simply isn't the case. 

davidmcn

unholyangel said:

davidmcn said:

unholyangel said:

Diamandis said:

Personally I'm not sure it would count as frustration. The photographer could still take photos and maintain social distancing guidelines and had allocated two days to you in order to do this (but I am not a lawyer). If your solicitor feels otherwise then maybe allowing them to handle it is the best course, otherwise your other option is small claims court which you can do by yourself.

The wedding cannot go ahead due to law

Depends where and when we're talking about - it could be they've cancelled because they didn't like restrictions on guest numbers / permitted travel / venue availability, rather than because they couldn't possibly have a wedding on that date.

Well OP said due to lockdown rather than social distancing but your argument is a bit like saying if you order a Bugatti but the law changed so they can't provide a Bugatti legally, that the contract isn't frustrated or in breach as long as they provide any other car to you. 

That simply isn't the case. 

Well, where do you draw the line? If you were expecting to have 51 guests but you decide to cancel because the law says you can only have 50 (or because some guests don't fancy flying in and then quarantining), does that mean all your suppliers can go whistle? It would help if the OP provided some context.

CrippsCorner

Hi thanks for the replies. I shall post some of the reply that I've written, but as yet have nowhere to send lol. In each bullet point, the first sentence is something I've taken from the photographers email, followed by my reply, and then a quote from the CMA/GOV website.

• *** states, “In fact, you have very clearly cancelled the contract we had.  Our contract terms on cancellation are clear.”

 We did not ‘cancel’ the contract – The contract became frustrated:

 In some circumstances, due to lockdown laws, a contract cannot go ahead as agreed or at all, and is therefore ‘frustrated’. A contract will be frustrated as a matter of law if, due to no fault of the parties, something happens after the contract was entered into which means it can no longer be performed at all or performance would be radically different to what was agreed.

As a result, the contract comes to an end and, where consumers have paid money in advance for services or goods that they have yet to receive, they will generally be entitled to obtain a refund.

 

Part 2 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires the terms in consumer contracts to be fair and, if written, transparent. Unfair terms are not enforceable against consumers.

 

• *** states, “The deposit is non-refundable.”

 CMAs view on non-refundable deposits:

 In the CMA’s view, for consumer contracts the above rights to a refund will usually apply even where the business says part of the payment is a non-refundable deposit or advance payment.

This is because the contract will have been frustrated and terms which allow a business to provide no service but keep a consumer’s money (including deposits or advance payments) are likely to be unfair, and therefore unenforceable under Part 2 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

 

• *** states, “As your wedding was booked for 16th April 2021 we do not know if there will be a full lockdown at this time and you may be able to still go ahead with your day as normal or with restrictions which means we have not breached our contract in any way.”

 CMA states that even if the wedding wasn’t completely cancelled (due to lockdown) but there were still restrictions in place, refunds would still be applicable:

 As some legal restrictions under the lockdown laws are lifted or eased, it may be the case that a business is no longer completely prevented from providing any of the services it agreed to provide. The CMA’s view is that if the service that can be provided would be radically different to what was agreed, for example, because lockdown laws or other restrictions would prevent key parts of the contract from being performed, then in most cases consumers should be entitled to a refund.

 

• *** states, “As a gesture of goodwill due to these extreme circumstances that are out of anyone's control, I will offer a gift voucher for a family shoot and also a glitter bar for a future event if we are available which would equal the amount you paid for the deposit.”

 CMA warns about feeling forced into accepting vouchers, or similar:

 Consumers can normally be offered credits, vouchers, re-booking or re-scheduling as an alternative to a refund, but they should not be misled or pressured into doing so. A refund should still be an option that is just as clearly and easily available.

In particular, businesses should not give consumers the impression that they are not entitled to a cash refund where that is their legal right, and in the CMA’s view this would be likely to breach consumer protection law.

 

Businesses should not require consumers to take unreasonable or unnecessary steps in order to obtain refunds. A business imposing such barriers may breach consumer protection law by doing so.

arthurfowler

Glitter Bar? LOL. Did you pay with a credit card?

Diamandis

Well it all depends on if the courts would view this as frustrated or not. The service of taking photographs is still available. 

unholyangel

davidmcn said:

unholyangel said:

davidmcn said:

unholyangel said:

Diamandis said:

Personally I'm not sure it would count as frustration. The photographer could still take photos and maintain social distancing guidelines and had allocated two days to you in order to do this (but I am not a lawyer). If your solicitor feels otherwise then maybe allowing them to handle it is the best course, otherwise your other option is small claims court which you can do by yourself.

The wedding cannot go ahead due to law

Depends where and when we're talking about - it could be they've cancelled because they didn't like restrictions on guest numbers / permitted travel / venue availability, rather than because they couldn't possibly have a wedding on that date.

Well OP said due to lockdown rather than social distancing but your argument is a bit like saying if you order a Bugatti but the law changed so they can't provide a Bugatti legally, that the contract isn't frustrated or in breach as long as they provide any other car to you. 

That simply isn't the case. 

Well, where do you draw the line? If you were expecting to have 51 guests but you decide to cancel because the law says you can only have 50 (or because some guests don't fancy flying in and then quarantining), does that mean all your suppliers can go whistle? It would help if the OP provided some context.

You draw the line at whether the contract, as agreed, can be performed. It doesn't matter (in your example) that they can provide a wedding for 50 because the contract was for 51. Unless the other party agrees to the variation. 

davidmcn

unholyangel said:

davidmcn said:

unholyangel said:

davidmcn said:

unholyangel said:

Diamandis said:

Personally I'm not sure it would count as frustration. The photographer could still take photos and maintain social distancing guidelines and had allocated two days to you in order to do this (but I am not a lawyer). If your solicitor feels otherwise then maybe allowing them to handle it is the best course, otherwise your other option is small claims court which you can do by yourself.

The wedding cannot go ahead due to law

Depends where and when we're talking about - it could be they've cancelled because they didn't like restrictions on guest numbers / permitted travel / venue availability, rather than because they couldn't possibly have a wedding on that date.

Well OP said due to lockdown rather than social distancing but your argument is a bit like saying if you order a Bugatti but the law changed so they can't provide a Bugatti legally, that the contract isn't frustrated or in breach as long as they provide any other car to you. 

That simply isn't the case. 

Well, where do you draw the line? If you were expecting to have 51 guests but you decide to cancel because the law says you can only have 50 (or because some guests don't fancy flying in and then quarantining), does that mean all your suppliers can go whistle? It would help if the OP provided some context.

You draw the line at whether the contract, as agreed, can be performed. It doesn't matter (in your example) that they can provide a wedding for 50 because the contract was for 51. Unless the other party agrees to the variation. 

I think we're talking about different contracts though...

Sandtree

unholyangel said:

You draw the line at whether the contract, as agreed, can be performed. It doesn't matter (in your example) that they can provide a wedding for 50 because the contract was for 51. Unless the other party agrees to the variation. 

It is highly unlikely that the contract with the photographer would include how many guests are to be there, the focus tends more to be on number of hours, which aspects they will cover and how many photos etc will be provided. All of these generally can be achieved irrespective of if there is 50 or 51 guests.