Brittania parking/BW legal taking me to court

bluegoldie

Am I able to post my NTK letter here for scrutiny of its compliance? One thing I have noticed of interest is that the PCN was issued for "parking longer than permitted" they give the times in and out but not how long was permitted?! It might seem irrelevant but as I was definitely not driving (and the car park being a good 90 mins drive and currently illegal) I have no clue if this "invoice" is only for mere minutes 🤔 I have blanked out personal details if it is ok to post? 

AOS to be filed today which is 5 days post notification from the court.

Umkomaas

Let's see it, both sides. Do not redact any dates on it. 

bluegoldie

this is it minus the photographs as they were difficult to anonomise; in my favour though they clearly show the driver (and it's not me!)

Umkomaas

The NtK is PoFA compliant. They can legitimately pursue the keeper if the driver's details are not provided. 

Forget the photo 'of the driver', ANPR cameras identify vehicle number plate digits, there is no attempt at facial recognition. It would not be used in court. 

bluegoldie

Thank you! I was planning to use the photos as my defence due to the very obvious physical difference between myself and the driver? If it is POFA compliant what would my defence stance now be? Sorry for all the questions but I don't want to add something to my defence that may bite me later on. 

I appreciate the support 

Umkomaas

If you were to use 'it's not me Your Honour, look at the photo', and the Judge responded, 'Do you know the driver?  You had the opportunity to pass over liability to the driver during the early stages of this process. Why didn't you?'  'But it's all irrelevant as under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), as registered keeper you can now be held liable'. 

what would my defence stance now be?

We can't just pull rabbits out of hats like that, you need to read the defence template, one of the five 'Announcements' at the top of the forum thread list, as apart from paras 2 and 3 (which you need to complete yourself), it's all written for you. 

In addition, you should read other recent Britannia/BWL court cases, particularly taking careful note of the name used by Britannia in their paperwork to you, compared to the name of the company on the actual car park signs (have you got yourself some photos of them yet?) and - eventually - when you get to see the contract between them and the landowner at the Witness Statement stage.   Reading of the other Britannia threads will help you improve to your knowledge and understanding of how to tackle the claim. 

bluegoldie

Umkomaas said:

If you were to use 'it's not me Your Honour, look at the photo', and the Judge responded, 'Do you know the driver?  You had the opportunity to pass over liability to the driver during the early stages of this process. Why didn't you?'  'But it's all irrelevant as under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), as registered keeper you can now be held liable'. 

what would my defence stance now be?

We can't just pull rabbits out of hats like that, you need to read the defence template, one of the five 'Announcements' at the top of the forum thread list, as apart from paras 2 and 3 (which you need to complete yourself), it's all written for you. 

In addition, you should read other recent Britannia/BWL court cases, particularly taking careful note of the name used by Britannia in their paperwork to you, compared to the name of the company on the actual car park signs (have you got yourself some photos of them yet?) and - eventually - when you get to see the contract between them and the landowner at the Witness Statement stage.   Reading of the other Britannia threads will help you improve to your knowledge and understanding of how to tackle the claim. 

I had actually returned the transfer of liability on the 13th of September! Its irrelevant now as sadly I just filled it in and posted it back.......... massive rookie error, so I know its not relevant now. But it was the reason I didn't appeal etc as I thought that sending the drivers details would be the end of it  (how wrong was I!) 

Redx

It should have been !!

POFA is what you can use to name the Driver , which you did at the time

POFA is what Britannia are using to try to make you the keeper liable by using that NTK

The real question becomes , which version wins out in court ??

The company name or names is a second argument where you stir the already muddy waters

As for the case , don't just do everything blindly just because it's written

Neither me or anyone else said to write about putting the matter on hold !!

It would be a long list if we told you what not to do , meaning we only tell you what to do at each stage !!

The putting the matter on hold is the pre court claim stage , you are past that stage

Do not spend any money on the SAR , but do report Britannia to the ICO and to the BPA online

Do that AOS today and draft those 2 paragraphs so we can see them

bluegoldie

Redx said:

It should have been !!

POFA is what you can use to name the Driver , which you did at the time

POFA is what Britannia are using to try to make you the keeper liable by using that NTK

The real question becomes , which version wins out in court ??

The company name or names is a second argument where you stir the already muddy waters

As for the case , don't just do everything blindly just because it's written

Neither me or anyone else said to write about putting the matter on hold !!

It would be a long list if we told you what not to do , meaning we only tell you what to do at each stage !!

The putting the matter on hold is the pre court claim stage , you are past that stage

Do not spend any money on the SAR , but do report Britannia to the ICO and to the BPA online

Do that AOS today and draft those 2 paragraphs so we can see them

Thanks. I think I got confused with the information on sending the SAR via the newbie thread as it said about then emailing the solicitor at the same time. It shouldn't affect my case ?! I have emailed them previously requesting proof of liability and denying the claim, it rendered no response from them so hopefully this will be the same.

I'm busy looking through the posts for my defence stance 

Thank you so much 

nosferatu1001

Did you at any further point tell them you had returned the drivers details by post?
They might claim they never received your notification. I am presuming you neither kept a copy nor got proof of postage - is that correct?