Home deliveries

2021BJ

GDB2222 said:

2021BJ said:

tpv991 said:

Is it 'vanishly small' or are you just being rude?

Yes, it's vanishingly small.

And I don't know how saying the risk of something happening is small is rude either.

Can I just check your reference for this statement please? 

There's plenty of evidence out there that limited exposure, at a distance, considerably reduces the risk of transmission, it's the whole reason why social distancing is a thing, and why you're not getting told to self-isolate by the app every time you pass someone in the street who later turns out to have it.  And the chance of actually coming into contact with someone with it in the first place is incredibly small anyway.  Most people, the overwhelming majority, in fact, do not have it.

If you think you're going to "gotcha" me because I don't have a peer-reviewed study over the risks of OAPs in a block of flats catching COVID from their maskless Tesco driver then think again.

GDB2222

Jeremy535897 said:

GDB2222 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

GDB2222 said:

Surely, if there’s a sign up from the building owners saying not to come in without a mask, that’s valid, and the driver is trespassing? It doesn’t matter if he’s exempt, as I can exclude him.

Trespass is about being somewhere you have no right to be, not being somewhere without a mask. Otherwise anyone visiting a shop without a mask on would be trespassing.

Owners can put up a sign saying mask wearing is compulsory, or require visitors to wear a full Hazmat suit for that matter, but it is not enforceable.

With a private house, I can impose whatever conditions I like. "Hard hats must be worn" - that's very common, for example. However, if I decide only to allow in people wearing an academic robe and mortar board, that's entirely my choice. 

It's more complicated with a block of flats, because it's not clear who has the right to deny access, but it's reasonable to assume that whoever put up the sign mentioned by the OP had the authority to do so. 

You can impose any condition you like, but you cannot use force to enforce it, and no law enforcement agency will enforce it for you. If you put up a sign saying "No deliveries", you won't get any, of course.

If someone enters my house without permission, of course it's entirely legal to use reasonable force to eject them. That doesn't apply to people with court orders etc, of course. Delivery drivers don't have those.

On a practical basis, of course it's sensible to avoid the problem in the first place. Most online orders include a box for special instructions, and it's reasonable to put in there "Driver is not allowed in the building unless wearing a mask", so they know where they stand. Besides that, they all have masks, so it's just a matter of them taking a few seconds to put it on.  I sympathise with a driver who arrives at the building carrying a load and only then finds a sign up saying masks must be worn.

gettingtheresometime

heatherw_01 said:

I haven't seen a single delivery driver, including groceries with a mask tbh through the entire pandemic other than the first lockdown. I am guessing they don't have to.
I am high risk as is the person I live with. They get very close when helping unpack food and don't have a mask.
I once asked a few and they said "we don't have to wear one so no one does"

None of my delivery drivers have ever helped me to unpack, even before the pandemic. They've always brought the trays to the door & then I pack the food from there

GDB2222

2021BJ said:

GDB2222 said:

2021BJ said:

tpv991 said:

Is it 'vanishly small' or are you just being rude?

Yes, it's vanishingly small.

And I don't know how saying the risk of something happening is small is rude either.

Can I just check your reference for this statement please? 

There's plenty of evidence out there that limited exposure, at a distance, considerably reduces the risk of transmission, it's the whole reason why social distancing is a thing, and why you're not getting told to self-isolate by the app every time you pass someone in the street who later turns out to have it.  And the chance of actually coming into contact with someone with it in the first place is incredibly small anyway.  Most people, the overwhelming majority, in fact, do not have it.

If you think you're going to "gotcha" me because I don't have a peer-reviewed study over the risks of OAPs in a block of flats catching COVID from their maskless Tesco driver then think again.

You have gone from "vanishingly small" to "considerably reduces".  I respect you for backing down. 

All these precautions like masks and social distancing are intended to reduce the spread of the virus. They help, but they don't make the risk 'vanishingly small'. 

If you're in a low risk group, your outlook on the risks is going to be very different from someone who is CEV. If I catch Covid, I'm in an age group that has a 2% chance of dying. That's not to be sneezed at, so to speak. 

2021BJ

GDB2222 said:

2021BJ said:

GDB2222 said:

2021BJ said:

tpv991 said:

Is it 'vanishly small' or are you just being rude?

Yes, it's vanishingly small.

And I don't know how saying the risk of something happening is small is rude either.

Can I just check your reference for this statement please? 

There's plenty of evidence out there that limited exposure, at a distance, considerably reduces the risk of transmission, it's the whole reason why social distancing is a thing, and why you're not getting told to self-isolate by the app every time you pass someone in the street who later turns out to have it.  And the chance of actually coming into contact with someone with it in the first place is incredibly small anyway.  Most people, the overwhelming majority, in fact, do not have it.

If you think you're going to "gotcha" me because I don't have a peer-reviewed study over the risks of OAPs in a block of flats catching COVID from their maskless Tesco driver then think again.

You have gone from "vanishingly small" to "considerably reduces".  I respect you for backing down. 

All these precautions like masks and social distancing are intended to reduce the spread of the virus. They help, but they don't make the risk 'vanishingly small'. 

If you're in a low risk group, your outlook on the risks is going to be very different from someone who is CEV. If I catch Covid, I'm in an age group that has a 2% chance of dying. That's not to be sneezed at, so to speak. 

Considerably reduces + risk of encountering someone with COVID in the first place being extremely small = vanishingly small chance.  I'm not backing down at all.

I've seen your posts, you're one of those who will just nitpick everything shown to you because you've already decided you're correct.  You're not worth wasting any more time on.

ripplyuk

I had a phone appointment with my infectious diseases consultant recently. The first one in ages since he’s so busy with Covid. He told me that since this new U.K. variant, he’s been seeing a lot more patients whose only risk factor was getting deliveries to their house. That has made me much more careful about delivery drivers. I add a note now, telling them to leave the groceries at the door and they’ve been fine with that. I don’t open the door, even if they’re wearing a mask (or ‘face covering’ really, it’s never a proper mask). 

OP, I don’t think there’s much you can do about the communal areas aside from trying to shop from more responsible sellers. All I can suggest is for you to wear a mask (an FFP3) whilst in those areas or near delivery drivers, which will help reduce the risk. 

GHolmesAdmin

I always wear a mask to take delivery of my groceries, sometimes the delivery person wears one, mostly they don't.

kimwp

The risk of transmission increases greatly with exposure - the time you spend questioning the driver about their mask wearing increases your risk.

Additionally, aerosol buildup increases the risk - I presume you are thoroughly airing your flat and the passageways that the driver must pass through before their arrival since this has a much greater impact on their risk than the small amount of mask-less time they spend at your door has on yours?

Arthurian

I found saying, "I'm self-isolating, so stand well back, please" worked well when answering the door (masked).

justworriedabit

Pollycat said:

justworriedabit said:

So what you are saying is that it is impossible for some supermarket worker/s to being "rude" first and doubting the validity of this posters post. A bit odd, that.

No.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

I didn't say 'it was impossible'.

I said I couldn't see it happening.

I did not state a fact i.e. something is not possible.

I stated my opinion.

The OP would have complained to Customer Services who will probably have standard responses to complaints.

I really do doubt that will include rudeness to customers - unless the customer's attitude has been so objectionable in the first place.

Again, please note that is my opinion, not a fact.

Or it may be that the OP has a very low 'rudeness' threshold and sees rudeness where there is none.

I'm guessing that may well be the case as he has already accused another poster of rudeness on this thread.

Again, please note that that is my opinion, not a fact.

Ok, thanks for you clarifying your post.
A "a very low level of rudeness."  Why are you doubting the the posters feelings? When I read the post, as far as I'm concerned, the poster was hurt and that is a fact. I too cannot stand rudeness and those that allow it to happen and this often results in more "rudeness" from the culprit. They need to be challenged and those that do not challenge that kind of behaviour need to think again. Yes, it's not always possible to challenge rudeness but often it is possible,