Nightmare used car purchase S75

elwon20

This is a bit of a complex one, so apologies for the length.

The car is a 2009 Jaguar XFR with 93k miles.
My section 75 claim summarises the events:

08/01/2021 Called [dealership] with regards to a car they had on sale on Autotrader. Autotrader had it listed with various high spec optional extras.
I called the dealer and expressed it was too expensive and they told me it was priced high due to the optional extras, they agreed to reduce the price from the £13,989 list price down to £13,250.

09/01/2021 I arrived at the dealership, they would not let me test drive it due to covid measures but allowed me to drive it around the parking lot. I then purchased the vehicle.
On my way home I was contacted by [dealership] letting me know they had undercharged me by £2,000. I did not have my card, I told them I would pay the extra when I got home.
When I got home I had realised the car did not have 6 of the 8 optional extras. (Yes this is my fault I should have checked more thoroughly before I bought the car).
I was upset by this, it was getting late. I took the evening to consider my options before calling [dealership] back the next day.

10/01/2021
I see the receipt and invoice I have for the car is in fact £2,000 below the expected sale price. I have received an email with an amended invoice. I discover [dealership] have attempted to charge 2 of my cards for the additional monies, without my authority. These transactions had failed due to a lack of funds, luckily the providers declined the payment instead of charging me. I had multiple threatening voicemails and text messages.
I call [dealership] and express my concern that the car was not as advertised. The phone call grew heated. I offered for [dealership] to either come and collect the car for a full refund, or I would pay an additional £750 of the £2000 shortfall originally verbally agreed as final payment for the car due to it's reduced spec. The phone call was ended while [dealership] considered the offer.
[dealership] text me stating that reluctantly they would accept an additional £1000 making a total sum of £12,375 for the final payment of the car. This final £1,000 was paid, and the sale finalised.

20/01/2021
I receive an email from [dealership] stating that they have the v5, with a document to sign stating that I waive all of my rights. I refuse to sign this document. [dealership] refuse to notify the DVLA of the sale and withhold the v5. Claiming that the purchase isn't finalised because I won't sign their document nor pay the extra £1000.

05/02/2021
The car refuses to change gear and GEARBOX FAULT is displayed in red on the dash. I slowly and gently drive the car home.
I email [dealership] informing them of the situation, requesting that they repair the car.

06/02/2021
[dealership] refuse to repair the car unless I pay an extra £1000 and return the car to them. I do not believe the car is safely drivable. They also say a refund is off the cards, and refuse to acknowledge that the sale is complete unless I sign their frankly crazy form, or pay an extra £1000.


This meant that I have a broken down car which is not the car I originally thought I purchased. I've been threatened with the police, legal action, vehicle recovery etc. I've had [dealership] attempt to illegally withdraw funds from my account. I now only have one usable car and my partner has just started a new job and I myself am starting a new job on March 5th, this is causing massive inconvenience. I have spent a day going to and collecting what was supposed to be my dream car (it's a 3 hour drive each way). I have insured the car which I will no doubt have to pay fees on cancellation.

I would like the car to be repaired, or a full refund.

I look forward to your prompt response on this matter. As recommended by Trading Standards, I would like to keep a complete record of my case, so please reply to this email address.
-----------------------------------------------

The above is my initial section 75 claim contact and summarises events so far, I also have (and provided) evidence of pretty much every single point listed in the claim above. At this point, the dealership is refusing to acknowledge that the sale is finalised, and all communication with them is pretty much a waste of time. The car broke and I informed the dealership of this within 30 days of the initial (and final) payment. I also filed the section 75 within 30 days.

My issue now is that I have asked an independant garage (a specialist in these particular gearboxes) to see if they can diagnose the fault and their response is basically that they can diagnose it but they will have to remove the gearbox and open it up, which is 50% of the work and costs of repairing it. They are also happy to take pictures of the process to provide evidence in court. And write a letter if they find any evidence to state that the fault was likely present before the vehicle was purchased.

I'm happy to pay for it to be repaired and then claim on the costs as I really don't want a broken car sat on my drive for the next 3-6 months while this is all being sorted. And I really need a car right now!
However, I'm not sure of several things:

1. Having it repaired would mean either altering my S75 claim to pay for the repairs, or closing it and re-opening it. I'm not sure if this is something that I am allowed to do, or if it would affect my chances of success. Nor which would be best (altering vs closing and opening a new claim).
2. Will having it repaired significantly reduces my chances of success in my S75 or potentially in court in future?

If having it repaired is going to reduce my chances of a successful claim of getting the costs back, then I obviously wouldn't have it repaired.
Again sorry about the length, I just wanted to make sure I got as many of the facts as there as possible to allow people to give a fair opinion.
What are peoples views?
If there are any questions or anything I've missed, please ask, as I'm looking for legitimate advice based on all of the facts.

williamgriffin

elwon20 said:

This is a bit of a complex one, so apologies for the length.

The car is a 2009 Jaguar XFR with 93k miles.
My section 75 claim summarises the events:

08/01/2021 Called [dealership] with regards to a car they had on sale on Autotrader. Autotrader had it listed with various high spec optional extras.
I called the dealer and expressed it was too expensive and they told me it was priced high due to the optional extras, they agreed to reduce the price from the £13,989 list price down to £13,250.

09/01/2021 I arrived at the dealership, they would not let me test drive it due to covid measures but allowed me to drive it around the parking lot. I then purchased the vehicle.
On my way home I was contacted by [dealership] letting me know they had undercharged me by £2,000. I did not have my card, I told them I would pay the extra when I got home.
When I got home I had realised the car did not have 6 of the 8 optional extras. (Yes this is my fault I should have checked more thoroughly before I bought the car).
I was upset by this, it was getting late. I took the evening to consider my options before calling [dealership] back the next day.

10/01/2021
I see the receipt and invoice I have for the car is in fact £2,000 below the expected sale price. I have received an email with an amended invoice. I discover [dealership] have attempted to charge 2 of my cards for the additional monies, without my authority. These transactions had failed due to a lack of funds, luckily the providers declined the payment instead of charging me. I had multiple threatening voicemails and text messages.
I call [dealership] and express my concern that the car was not as advertised. The phone call grew heated. I offered for [dealership] to either come and collect the car for a full refund, or I would pay an additional £750 of the £2000 shortfall originally verbally agreed as final payment for the car due to it's reduced spec. The phone call was ended while [dealership] considered the offer.
[dealership] text me stating that reluctantly they would accept an additional £1000 making a total sum of £12,375 for the final payment of the car. This final £1,000 was paid, and the sale finalised.

20/01/2021
I receive an email from [dealership] stating that they have the v5, with a document to sign stating that I waive all of my rights. I refuse to sign this document. [dealership] refuse to notify the DVLA of the sale and withhold the v5. Claiming that the purchase isn't finalised because I won't sign their document nor pay the extra £1000.

05/02/2021
The car refuses to change gear and GEARBOX FAULT is displayed in red on the dash. I slowly and gently drive the car home.
I email [dealership] informing them of the situation, requesting that they repair the car.

06/02/2021
[dealership] refuse to repair the car unless I pay an extra £1000 and return the car to them. I do not believe the car is safely drivable. They also say a refund is off the cards, and refuse to acknowledge that the sale is complete unless I sign their frankly crazy form, or pay an extra £1000.


This meant that I have a broken down car which is not the car I originally thought I purchased. I've been threatened with the police, legal action, vehicle recovery etc. I've had [dealership] attempt to illegally withdraw funds from my account. I now only have one usable car and my partner has just started a new job and I myself am starting a new job on March 5th, this is causing massive inconvenience. I have spent a day going to and collecting what was supposed to be my dream car (it's a 3 hour drive each way). I have insured the car which I will no doubt have to pay fees on cancellation.

I would like the car to be repaired, or a full refund.

I look forward to your prompt response on this matter. As recommended by Trading Standards, I would like to keep a complete record of my case, so please reply to this email address.
-----------------------------------------------

The above is my initial section 75 claim contact and summarises events so far, I also have (and provided) evidence of pretty much every single point listed in the claim above. At this point, the dealership is refusing to acknowledge that the sale is finalised, and all communication with them is pretty much a waste of time. The car broke and I informed the dealership of this within 30 days of the initial (and final) payment. I also filed the section 75 within 30 days.

My issue now is that I have asked an independant garage (a specialist in these particular gearboxes) to see if they can diagnose the fault and their response is basically that they can diagnose it but they will have to remove the gearbox and open it up, which is 50% of the work and costs of repairing it. They are also happy to take pictures of the process to provide evidence in court. And write a letter if they find any evidence to state that the fault was likely present before the vehicle was purchased.

I'm happy to pay for it to be repaired and then claim on the costs as I really don't want a broken car sat on my drive for the next 3-6 months while this is all being sorted. And I really need a car right now!
However, I'm not sure of several things:

1. Having it repaired would mean either altering my S75 claim to pay for the repairs, or closing it and re-opening it. I'm not sure if this is something that I am allowed to do, or if it would affect my chances of success. Nor which would be best (altering vs closing and opening a new claim).
2. Will having it repaired significantly reduces my chances of success in my S75 or potentially in court in future?

If having it repaired is going to reduce my chances of a successful claim of getting the costs back, then I obviously wouldn't have it repaired.
Again sorry about the length, I just wanted to make sure I got as many of the facts as there as possible to allow people to give a fair opinion.
What are peoples views?
If there are any questions or anything I've missed, please ask, as I'm looking for legitimate advice based on all of the facts.

It's a shame you didn't ask earlier and used your 30 right to reject. 

elwon20

williamgriffin said:

It's a shame you didn't ask earlier and used your 30 right to reject.

My S75 claim was within 30 days and states I either want a refund (reject) or a repair... to my knowledge (I could be wrong?) by accepting a repair my 30 day right to reject is paused until the repair is complete?

williamgriffin

elwon20 said:

williamgriffin said:

It's a shame you didn't ask earlier and used your 30 right to reject.

My S75 claim was within 30 days and states I either want a refund (reject) or a repair... to my knowledge (I could be wrong?) by accepting a repair my 30 day right to reject is paused until the repair is complete?

So why have you made a claim on your credit card instead of taking it back for repair?

elwon20

Because the dealership is refusing to repair it or refund it unless I pay them an extra £1000 and drive it over 200 miles back to their dealership.
They have stated repeatedly and categorically that I have 2 options:
1. Sign the document waiving all of my rights, and they will send the v5 and the repair is my problem.
2. Pay them the final (an extra) £1000, and return the car 200 miles to them, and they will repair it. (To my knowledge it is legally up to them to pay for costs of return, but they do not care about this either).

The facts are that I have evidence stating that they would accept my last payment of £1000 as final payment. And the document they want me to sign forcing me to waive all of my rights was never a part of the deal until they sent it to me 10 days after that final payment was agreed and sent.
Despite this, they do not care and refuse to communicate with me unless it's me agreeing to one of those two options. I have no option but to agree to one of those, sue or raise an S75.

Aylesbury_Duck

Isn't the extra £1000 causing a problem, because you owe it to them, irrespective of the current faults with the car?

Also, it was your choice to buy from a dealer 200 miles away.  I would have thought that any costs associated with getting it back to them are yours to bear.  Otherwise, any dealer would only sell to someone based nearby, else they're liable for unknown costs if something goes wrong.

It seems to me that option 2 is the way forward, whether or not you want them to repair it or you want to reject it.  By simultaneously withholding what you owe and refusing to allow them access to the car to assess the fault, you are simply holding up the process.  That's how I see it.

Edited to add: sorry, just re-read it.  It seems you've paid £1,000 extra as final payment, which they've acknowledged?  So what's the extra £1,000 they're asking for all about?  Have they forgotten they accepted the £1,000 extra as final settlement?

elwon20

I do not owe it to them. They are claiming I owe it to them. But the evidence proves otherwise.
They accepted an offer of £1000 as final payment in writing, due to the vehicle not being sold as advertised. 10 days after that amount was paid and the sale concluded they then attempted to add extra rules to that offer, forcing me to waive all of my rights. That cannot be legal!
I do not trust that paying them an extra £1000 would allow me to get a full refund. And at this point, based on their previous actions I do not trust them to repair the vehicle satisfactorily either tbh.

To the best of my knowledge, it is for the seller to repair the fault at no unnecessary cost to the buyer, this includes transporting the vehicle. So it should be their cost to bear.

elwon20

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Isn't the extra £1000 causing a problem, because you owe it to them, irrespective of the current faults with the car?

Also, it was your choice to buy from a dealer 200 miles away.  I would have thought that any costs associated with getting it back to them are yours to bear.  Otherwise, any dealer would only sell to someone based nearby, else they're liable for unknown costs if something goes wrong.

It seems to me that option 2 is the way forward, whether or not you want them to repair it or you want to reject it.  By simultaneously withholding what you owe and refusing to allow them access to the car to assess the fault, you are simply holding up the process.  That's how I see it.

Edited to add: sorry, just re-read it.  It seems you've paid £1,000 extra as final payment, which they've acknowledged?  So what's the extra £1,000 they're asking for all about?  Have they forgotten they accepted the £1,000 extra as final settlement?

No they haven't forgotten... they are attempting to add 'extra rules' to it post sale in the form of "sign this and waive all of your rights, or you still owe us the final £1000", They attempted this when they received the v5 from the DVLA, using it as leverage.

Aylesbury_Duck

elwon20 said:

I do not owe it to them. They are claiming I owe it to them. But the evidence proves otherwise.
They accepted an offer of £1000 as final payment in writing, due to the vehicle not being sold as advertised. 10 days after that amount was paid and the sale concluded they then attempted to add extra rules to that offer, forcing me to waive all of my rights. That cannot be legal!
I do not trust that paying them an extra £1000 would allow me to get a full refund. And at this point, based on their previous actions I do not trust them to repair the vehicle satisfactorily either tbh.

To the best of my knowledge, it is for the seller to repair the fault at no unnecessary cost to the buyer, this includes transporting the vehicle. So it should be their cost to bear.

Yes, sorry - see my edited post above.  I re-read it and grasped the £1,000 bit properly.

They can't demand an extra £1,000 to deal with the problem as a penalty for there being a problem.  In effect, they're saying "look, we agreed to waive £1,000 of the £2,000 you owed us but now you've got a problem, we're going back on that deal."  They also can't override your consumer rights by getting you to sign a waiver.

I don't agree about the transporting costs, though.  I thought those were yours to bear in the first instance, because you elected to buy from a dealer 200 miles away.

elwon20

No problem It's all a bit of a mess.
Putting transport costs aside then, as it's kind of irrelevant at this point (they refuse to take it back at all right now).

Suggestions? Especially with regards to:

"
1. Having it repaired would mean either altering my S75 claim to pay for the repairs, or closing it and re-opening it. I'm not sure if this is something that I am allowed to do, or if it would affect my chances of success. Nor which would be best (altering vs closing and opening a new claim).
2. Will having it repaired significantly reduces my chances of success in my S75 or potentially in court in future?
"

burlingtonfl6

Let's be honest here, you and the garage both sound like you deserve each other.