Electric meter faulty - energy supplier wants to fit smart meters

Gerry1

UnclaimedEnergy said:

I am very interested to hear actual reasons why people refuse a smart meter when the only difference to regular meters is that it can send readings automatically to suppliers.
Of course I don't actively look for the negative impacts of a smart meter so maybe I'm just missing some key information everyone else who refuses them knows?

Yes, you're missing a lot of key information.

The comms isn't one way, your smart meter does what it's told, and all sorts of nasties are in the specifications.  It's known as Demand Side Response, a euphemism for rationing because our creaky generating network won't be able to meet peak demand; we've already had several narrow squeaks in recent months.  Your smart meter functions include Time of Use tariffs (expensive when you want to use it), block tariffs (p/kWh rate goes up the more you use, effectively a Greta tax), Load Limiting and Load Shedding (it'll ration you and then cut you off if you don't obey).

It stores 13 months of data; your appliances' usage 'fingerprints' can be analysed to gains insights about you and to profile and monetise your lifestyle (see Onzo and Voltaware) and even shared with organisations including HMRC and the police.

And before any shills and trolls start mentioning tin foil hats (no, I'm not accusing you), it's all 100% factual info, not mere imagination.

MWT

.. but by the time there is a need to actually use any of the 'Demand Side  Response' stuff you can be sure that it will already have been mandatory to fit a smart meter for some time...

You can resist for a while longer for sure, but ultimately, 'Resistance is futile' your meter will be added to the Collective

I took the view that having a Smart Meter enabled access to new tariffs that were not available to dumb meters and I've been saving considerable amounts of money ever since, with very minor adjustments to when and how we use electricity.

Telegraph_Sam

Of the tariffs that are in my shortlist for when switching next comes, E.on is indeed one of the most competitive - by a few £'s p.a.-  but fitting a Smart is mandatory. Luckily  at present they seem to be in a minority. My preference for dumb meters is grounded on the feeling of "being (more) in control" if things go wrong, disputes and misunderstandings etc rather than being at the mercy of something in a Black Box. Gerry1's revealing comments above just reinforce my gut feelings.

Telegraph_Sam

I can remember getting a "read only" smart meter years ago which was intended to encourage the user to identify where the main consumption was coming from. and cut back accordingly. After a few days' use the novelty factor had worn off and it became no more than a gimmick on my shelf. 

niktheguru

Telegraph_Sam said:

Of the tariffs that are in my shortlist for when switching next comes, E.on is indeed one of the most competitive - by a few £'s p.a.-  but fitting a Smart is mandatory. Luckily  at present they seem to be in a minority. My preference for dumb meters is grounded on the feeling of "being (more) in control" if things go wrong, disputes and misunderstandings etc rather than being at the mercy of something in a Black Box. Gerry1's revealing comments above just reinforce my gut feelings.

How are you more in control if things go wrong? Most dumb meters are digital now anyway, something goes wrong with the lcd in either smart or non smart its similar. Surely if working to purpose, billing problems are far less likely with a smart meter, as your accurate readings are being sent automatically. You can similarly keep records of readings etc like you already do, so a smart reader doesn't stop you doing what you already do in reading your own meter. The whole point of these is to reduce the disputes and misunderstandings with billing....about time too.

molerat

niktheguru said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

Of the tariffs that are in my shortlist for when switching next comes, E.on is indeed one of the most competitive - by a few £'s p.a.-  but fitting a Smart is mandatory. Luckily  at present they seem to be in a minority. My preference for dumb meters is grounded on the feeling of "being (more) in control" if things go wrong, disputes and misunderstandings etc rather than being at the mercy of something in a Black Box. Gerry1's revealing comments above just reinforce my gut feelings.

How are you more in control if things go wrong? Most dumb meters are digital now anyway, something goes wrong with the lcd in either smart or non smart its similar. Surely if working to purpose, billing problems are far less likely with a smart meter, as your accurate readings are being sent automatically. You can similarly keep records of readings etc like you already do, so a smart reader doesn't stop you doing what you already do in reading your own meter. The whole point of these is to reduce the disputes and misunderstandings with billing....about time too.

There are many posts on here that state otherwise though.  Maybe not a majority but a large minority have been lulled into a false sense of security that everything is going smoothly when the opposite applies.  I am not against smart meters but they would provide no benefit to me whatsoever.  i send my monthly readings to my supplier, I know they are accurate and I know they have been sent. I do not rely on someone or something else doing it for me and hoping they actually do it.  I can read my current meters from 6ft away without having to push buttons and hope the number I see on the screen is actually the number I need.  The American military have a term that suits the smart meter programme to a tee but I likely would get banned for using it !

As for being more in control, if I read my own meter I know if it is broken.  The current system seems to just carry on estimating as if nothing has happened and as people don't need to read their meter any more because the telly advert told them so ......... If the system is so smart why does it not report a faulty meter ?

Gerry1

Telegraph_Sam said:

I can remember getting a "read only" smart meter years ago which was intended to encourage the user to identify where the main consumption was coming from. and cut back accordingly. After a few days' use the novelty factor had worn off and it became no more than a gimmick on my shelf. 

Sounds like that was an Energy Monitor, not a smart meter; you can't put a real meter away in a drawer because it's plumbed in permanently.

But if the stated aims of smart meters were true (helping you to reduce usage) they could have saved over £400 per household by giving everyone a free Energy Monitor rather than an expensive smart meter.  Proof, if any were needed, that DSR is the real reason for the smart meter rollout, not the potential saving of just £11 per year.

Telegraph_Sam

"...if working to purpose, billing problems are far less likely with a smart meter..."    These are the operative words. Where this is not the case then I cannot improve on Molerat's latest comments above (so won't try). Checking and verifying one's manual input is easier than something that has been recorded remotely.
I suspect that I am not the only Dummie that put Monitors and Meters in the same box.  I must look up the US Military definition of a smart meter.

niktheguru

molerat said:

niktheguru said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

Of the tariffs that are in my shortlist for when switching next comes, E.on is indeed one of the most competitive - by a few £'s p.a.-  but fitting a Smart is mandatory. Luckily  at present they seem to be in a minority. My preference for dumb meters is grounded on the feeling of "being (more) in control" if things go wrong, disputes and misunderstandings etc rather than being at the mercy of something in a Black Box. Gerry1's revealing comments above just reinforce my gut feelings.

How are you more in control if things go wrong? Most dumb meters are digital now anyway, something goes wrong with the lcd in either smart or non smart its similar. Surely if working to purpose, billing problems are far less likely with a smart meter, as your accurate readings are being sent automatically. You can similarly keep records of readings etc like you already do, so a smart reader doesn't stop you doing what you already do in reading your own meter. The whole point of these is to reduce the disputes and misunderstandings with billing....about time too.

There are many posts on here that state otherwise though.  Maybe not a majority but a large minority have been lulled into a false sense of security that everything is going smoothly when the opposite applies.  I am not against smart meters but they would provide no benefit to me whatsoever.  i send my monthly readings to my supplier, I know they are accurate and I know they have been sent. I do not rely on someone or something else doing it for me and hoping they actually do it.  I can read my current meters from 6ft away without having to push buttons and hope the number I see on the screen is actually the number I need.  The American military have a term that suits the smart meter programme to a tee but I likely would get banned for using it !

As for being more in control, if I read my own meter I know if it is broken.  The current system seems to just carry on estimating as if nothing has happened and as people don't need to read their meter any more because the telly advert told them so .........

Yeah but this is a energy forum on a money saving website. I wouldn't necessarily take this as representative of whats happening on the smart roll out in general. People always come on forums when things don't work or something goes wrong.  There are 18 million smart meters working in their designed "smart" way currently. Of courses there will be some problems. Just as you get the people with their dumb meters saying "the display has gone", "its stopped incrementing" "i cant read the meter properly, i don't know what reading 1 and reading 2 is" etc etc.
The main problem with smart metering was the fiasco that was SMETS1, which was a poorly designed and implemented system which didn't take into account of switching....but then again what proportion of the population actually switch regularly....it should be much higher than it actually is. Thats how con artists like look after my bills capitalise on those that have no clue.

If everyone read their meter every month, uploaded the data etc etc then there wouldn't be a problem. But just look at the forums to see the number that don't and never have, or don't even know where their meter is, or dont know the difference between an IHD or meter.
As for the argument about being more in control, yes if you read your own meter you know if its broken. Similarly if one looked at their bills like they should, then they'd know if the readings were estimated/actual/smart. For those that read their meter regularly thats fine. For those that don't they'll keep getting estimated bills. At least a smart meter prevents that.

I whole heartedly agree that for those that read their meter regularly and submit readings a smart meter will not really be of much benefit. So completely understand why a conscienscious person who reads the meter regularly may not want their meter that works perfectly to be changed unnecessarily.  But I would suggest the majority of energy users probably don't do that or at least don't do it very regularly and so would benefit from a smart meter offering accurate readings and usage, and certainly the original question of this thread of replacing a broken meter, i don't see how putting a dumb meter is particularly advantageous.

Its a bit like saying you don't need sat nav in your car/phone for driving, cos you can use a paper/book map and it does the job fine. Yeah sure it does and for those of us that grew up with paper maps its absolutely fine. But sat nav/google maps etc has replaced it, its made travelling more convenient, efficient and reliable.....but at the end of the day either way is ok.

Gerry1

Telegraph_Sam said:

I must look up the US Military definition of a smart meter.

FUBAR / SNAFU?