Electric meter faulty - energy supplier wants to fit smart meters

[Deleted User]

Smart meters are just meters that record usage in kWhs for electricity and M3s for gas. Yes, they have additional functions built into them. All suppliers are registered DCC Users; however, some of the smaller suppliers still have some work to do to connect their billing systems to the DCC. For this to happen, they need to have a DCC secure piece of software known as an Adaptor. Some suppliers have their own Adaptor others, like Octopus, use an Adaptor provided by a third-party. In addition to billing, the Adaptor is used to send/receive messages from the meters via the comms hub. Messages can include such things as tariff changes; firmware updates; gas battery life and voltage issues.

Phones4Chris

vacheron said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

molerat said:

My biggest bugbear is that what idiot decided to specify meters that by default do not show the actual "meter reading" ?  And why can I not read these meters from 6 ft away with a torch like I can with my old fashioned ones ?

With smarts is there not a visual display that one can take note / a picture of as a cross check on what the technology says are the readings?
And can smarts be imposed even if one's existing dumb meters have not reached EOL status?

Yes, they do. Here are mine which I took this week because, despite having two smart meters installed, my current supplier does not support them! 

Did you not have to press at least one button to get that gas reading in m3?

Phones4Chris

45002 said:
Read more at: https://www.smartme.co.uk/customer-rights.html

Now there is an interesting bit in that document -

A Customer's rights:

1. To refuse to have a Smart Meter (in later years this will probably mean you have a SMETS2 Smart Meter without a communications module, which will be the closest thing to a traditional meter).

That seems to support what I said in another thread (which I'll have to look for) about not having the comms module fitted!

Telegraph_Sam

1/4 hour ago Octopus, in response to a query from me, confirmed that the choice of meter was totally mine. Refreshing attitude.

MWT

Phones4Chris said:

45002 said:
Read more at: https://www.smartme.co.uk/customer-rights.html

Now there is an interesting bit in that document -

A Customer's rights:

1. To refuse to have a Smart Meter (in later years this will probably mean you have a SMETS2 Smart Meter without a communications module, which will be the closest thing to a traditional meter).

That seems to support what I said in another thread (which I'll have to look for) about not having the comms module fitted!

That was just an opinion, not a hard fact, and was published quite a while ago.

milgo

@chaotic_j sorry but I don't think that anyone has asked you why you don't want smart meters? 

[Deleted User]

Phones4Chris said:

45002 said:
Read more at: https://www.smartme.co.uk/customer-rights.html

Now there is an interesting bit in that document -

A Customer's rights:

1. To refuse to have a Smart Meter (in later years this will probably mean you have a SMETS2 Smart Meter without a communications module, which will be the closest thing to a traditional meter).

That seems to support what I said in another thread (which I'll have to look for) about not having the comms module fitted!

Unless the comms module is fitted then the smart meters will not work. It will also leave terminals exposed to the elements. According to my supplier, a 'dumb' smart meter is a complete meter installation but one where the comms hub does not send data to The DCC. Based on my recent experience, the SMETS2 gas meter needs access to a comms hub or it will not commission properly. All the homeowner will see is a banner saying 'Awaiting Commissioning'. 

In an End-of-Life meter situation, the Government (BEIS) said this in June 2020 in a detailed consultation with the Industry:

Quote:

1. Several respondents, including energy suppliers, suggested that the government should consider making smart meter installations mandatory in instances where an existing meter reaches the end of its operational lifetime. We agree that in such cases the removal of consumer choice would not be detrimental to the wider consumer experience. In these instances, energy suppliers are already obligated to gain access to the premises to change an end of life meter in order to protect energy supply and public safety and have existing powers to gain access to do so.

   Unquote

   The Consultation also went on to say:

   Quote:

   1. Several respondents suggested that to overcome consumer acceptance issues, the Government should introduce an obligation for consumers to accept a smart meter but have the option to request that the smart functionality is not enabled, allowing the meter to operate in traditional mode and not transmit usage data via the DCC.

      Unquote

Phones4Chris

[Deleted User] said:

Phones4Chris said:

45002 said:
Read more at: https://www.smartme.co.uk/customer-rights.html

Now there is an interesting bit in that document -

A Customer's rights:

1. To refuse to have a Smart Meter (in later years this will probably mean you have a SMETS2 Smart Meter without a communications module, which will be the closest thing to a traditional meter).

That seems to support what I said in another thread (which I'll have to look for) about not having the comms module fitted!

Unless the comms module is fitted then the smart meters will not work. It will also leave terminals exposed to the elements. According to my supplier, a 'dumb' smart meter is a complete meter installation but one where the comms hub does not send data to The DCC. Based on my recent experience, the SMETS2 gas meter needs access to a comms hub or it will not commission properly. All the homeowner will see is a banner saying 'Awaiting Commissioning'. 
.................

It's pointless you quoting the BEIS, as it's already been quoted, we know what it says, smart meters are not mandatory at present, and doubt it will be any time in the near future.

You say that unless the comms module is fitted, then the smart meters will not work. According to my supplier .................etc.
So as you don't appear to actually install these things, you are relying on information that may not be accurate because it comes from another person who may not have been briefed fully or accurately. You say that the SMETS2 gas meter needs a comms hub or it will not commission properly. So do we know that it won't continue to work if it's commissioned and then the comms hub is removed. NO we don't.

I know it was some time ago when I saw a smart meter working without a comms hub, so it was probably a SMETS1. There were no exposed terminals, a cover was fitted. Look at the pictures of SMETS2 meters without the comms hub attached, there are no terminals "exposed" to the elements in the manner your statement seems to make out as though there was exposed terminals with mains voltage on!
They are all female connectors, similar in appearance to the sort of female serial connectors that were found on a lot of computer equipment. They are no more exposed that your USB socket, or HDMI socket, Jack socket, etc.......  Apart from which, I'm pretty sure it comes with a cover over that part before it's installed and a comms unit fitted.

There are plenty of examples where people have changed supplier and the "smart" functionality no longer works because the comms to home no longer works - granted the module is still fitted, but I remain unconvinced that the meters wouldn't continue to work if the module were then removed.
Frankly we need accurate information from someone who is a fully experienced and trained installer (not just someone whose been given a crib-sheet and a walk-through "this is what you do". Someone who knows (and has experimented even) but had to deal with cases where comms units have failed, what happens if one is removed, and so on.
All this surmising as to what may or may not be the case doesn't improve our knowledge.

[Deleted User]

Phones4Chris said:

[Deleted User] said:

Phones4Chris said:

45002 said:
Read more at: https://www.smartme.co.uk/customer-rights.html

Now there is an interesting bit in that document -

A Customer's rights:

1. To refuse to have a Smart Meter (in later years this will probably mean you have a SMETS2 Smart Meter without a communications module, which will be the closest thing to a traditional meter).

That seems to support what I said in another thread (which I'll have to look for) about not having the comms module fitted!

Unless the comms module is fitted then the smart meters will not work. It will also leave terminals exposed to the elements. According to my supplier, a 'dumb' smart meter is a complete meter installation but one where the comms hub does not send data to The DCC. Based on my recent experience, the SMETS2 gas meter needs access to a comms hub or it will not commission properly. All the homeowner will see is a banner saying 'Awaiting Commissioning'. 
.................

It's pointless you quoting the BEIS, as it's already been quoted, we know what it says, smart meters are not mandatory at present, and doubt it will be any time in the near future.

You say that unless the comms module is fitted, then the smart meters will not work. According to my supplier .................etc.
So as you don't appear to actually install these things, you are relying on information that may not be accurate because it comes from another person who may not have been briefed fully or accurately. You say that the SMETS2 gas meter needs a comms hub or it will not commission properly. So do we know that it won't continue to work if it's commissioned and then the comms hub is removed. NO we don't.

I know it was some time ago when I saw a smart meter working without a comms hub, so it was probably a SMETS1. There were no exposed terminals, a cover was fitted. Look at the pictures of SMETS2 meters without the comms hub attached, there are no terminals "exposed" to the elements in the manner your statement seems to make out as though there was exposed terminals with mains voltage on!
They are all female connectors, similar in appearance to the sort of female serial connectors that were found on a lot of computer equipment. They are no more exposed that your USB socket, or HDMI socket, Jack socket, etc.......  Apart from which, I'm pretty sure it comes with a cover over that part before it's installed and a comms unit fitted.

There are plenty of examples where people have changed supplier and the "smart" functionality no longer works because the comms to home no longer works - granted the module is still fitted, but I remain unconvinced that the meters wouldn't continue to work if the module were then removed.
Frankly we need accurate information from someone who is a fully experienced and trained installer (not just someone whose been given a crib-sheet and a walk-through "this is what you do". Someone who knows (and has experimented even) but had to deal with cases where comms units have failed, what happens if one is removed, and so on.
All this surmising as to what may or may not be the case doesn't improve our knowledge.

If you bother to read any of the BEIS documents you will see that the Government has accepted that when a meter is end of life suppliers can now fit a smart meter as they have a legal right of entry; suppliers can charge for the fitting of non smart meters, and suppliers can target their cheapest tariffs at customers with smart meters. Suppliers want to charge customers that decline a smart meter a surcharge to reflect the higher cost of customer service but, for the moment, BEIS has said no. 

In most cases, the issue with meters going dumb is because they are SMETS1 meters which are manufacturer/supplier dependent. These are being enrolled and adopted by the DCC. If this is not possible, they will be replaced with SMETS2 meters.

IMHO, Smart meters will be made mandatory: it is only a question of time.

brewerdave

[Deleted User] said:

Phones4Chris said:

[Deleted User] said:

Phones4Chris said:

45002 said:
Read more at: https://www.smartme.co.uk/customer-rights.html

Now there is an interesting bit in that document -

A Customer's rights:

1. To refuse to have a Smart Meter (in later years this will probably mean you have a SMETS2 Smart Meter without a communications module, which will be the closest thing to a traditional meter).

That seems to support what I said in another thread (which I'll have to look for) about not having the comms module fitted!

Unless the comms module is fitted then the smart meters will not work. It will also leave terminals exposed to the elements. According to my supplier, a 'dumb' smart meter is a complete meter installation but one where the comms hub does not send data to The DCC. Based on my recent experience, the SMETS2 gas meter needs access to a comms hub or it will not commission properly. All the homeowner will see is a banner saying 'Awaiting Commissioning'. 
.................

It's pointless you quoting the BEIS, as it's already been quoted, we know what it says, smart meters are not mandatory at present, and doubt it will be any time in the near future.

You say that unless the comms module is fitted, then the smart meters will not work. According to my supplier .................etc.
So as you don't appear to actually install these things, you are relying on information that may not be accurate because it comes from another person who may not have been briefed fully or accurately. You say that the SMETS2 gas meter needs a comms hub or it will not commission properly. So do we know that it won't continue to work if it's commissioned and then the comms hub is removed. NO we don't.

I know it was some time ago when I saw a smart meter working without a comms hub, so it was probably a SMETS1. There were no exposed terminals, a cover was fitted. Look at the pictures of SMETS2 meters without the comms hub attached, there are no terminals "exposed" to the elements in the manner your statement seems to make out as though there was exposed terminals with mains voltage on!
They are all female connectors, similar in appearance to the sort of female serial connectors that were found on a lot of computer equipment. They are no more exposed that your USB socket, or HDMI socket, Jack socket, etc.......  Apart from which, I'm pretty sure it comes with a cover over that part before it's installed and a comms unit fitted.

There are plenty of examples where people have changed supplier and the "smart" functionality no longer works because the comms to home no longer works - granted the module is still fitted, but I remain unconvinced that the meters wouldn't continue to work if the module were then removed.
Frankly we need accurate information from someone who is a fully experienced and trained installer (not just someone whose been given a crib-sheet and a walk-through "this is what you do". Someone who knows (and has experimented even) but had to deal with cases where comms units have failed, what happens if one is removed, and so on.
All this surmising as to what may or may not be the case doesn't improve our knowledge.

In most cases, the issue with meters going dumb is because they are SMETS1 meters which are manufacturer/supplier dependent. These are being enrolled and adopted by the DCC. If this is not possible, they will be replaced with SMETS2 meters.

IMHO, Smart meters will be made mandatory: it is only a question of time.

Have you found any published numbers for this ? I haven't. Certainly my personal knowledge of this via a relation who has had (non operational) SMETS1 meters. His latest supplier ,EON, have told him that the meters will have to be replaced as they cannot be "upgraded" . He queried and was assured that replacement is the only option . My suspicion is that suppliers are defaulting to the easier option of replacement rather than adoption .