Electric meter faulty - energy supplier wants to fit smart meters

silverwhistle

Telegraph_Sam said:

Whenever I read or hear the word "average" I get twitchy since this can hide such a load of half truths. In judging Agile or any other skewed tariff the proper yardstick would be the weighted average. (If I consume zero kwh at 3 am then it makes no difference if the price drops to zero or even into negative territory at that time)

But that's the whole point! It's to encourage people to use energy when it's cheap, and vice-versa. It's not a tariff I'd recommend to anybody/everybody because I don't know their circumstances and whether they have the ability to modify their behaviour, but it works for me. The rates were a bit high a month or so ago due to a combination of factors including generating plant and inter-connectors down, and I considered switching. But overall my dual fuel direct debit with Octopus is (just under) £20 a month so it's one of my bills I really don't have to worry about, even if I have to be a bit switched on to achieve that. (Whoops, I didn't mean that pun..)

It's the blanket dismissal of such tariffs that annoys me.

chaotic_j

Hi,

Apologies to bump an old thread but last year after some to-ing and fro-ing with the energy provider they advised (amongst other things) that a) traditional meters could be obtained but had a longer wait and b) they could install a smart meter in 'dumb' mode.. etc.

I've now got in touch to go with option a) and they say it's not possible, so I was considering option b) but again they say it's not possible, blaming Ofgem regulation changes.

So I asked what regulations and when did they change.. 'in the last month and we will send some information'. Anyway the information didn't make any sense and it turns out, quelle surprise - there have been no recent Ofgem regulation changes.

They said 'dumb' mode may be possible but only for health reasons.. 'what are your reasons for not wanting a smart meter in smart mode?'. I've several reasons and it's private!

So finally the real reason comes out as to why there is no alternative - it's because they thought installing in 'dumb' mode with an intention to activate at a later date would count towards Ofgem 2025 targets - but it doesn't.

As a consumer I'm unsure how this is my issue. I don't want a smart meter in smart mode and I'm not a luddite. I've done my research and have my reasons.

Where do I go from here?

I do believe from my research a replacement for a faulty meter has to be smart.. but also that energy companies are perfectly able to install smart meters in 'dumb' mode if requested.

Also about having the gas meter replaced at the same time with a smart meter.. apparently it's because 'both meters were likely installed on the same date and will be the same age' well it's only 10 years old - probably still in certification I suppose?

Regards,
chaotic_j

MWT

chaotic_j said:

I do believe from my research a replacement for a faulty meter has to be smart.. but also that energy companies are perfectly able to install smart meters in 'dumb' mode if requested.

'dumb' mode, if it ever really existed, isn't an option now it seems.

The customer no longer has the right to deny the supplier access to the monthly smart meter readings, but does retain the right to deny the supplier access to daily and/or half-hourly data.

Section62

chaotic_j said:

So I asked what regulations and when did they change.. 'in the last month and we will send some information'. Anyway the information didn't make any sense and it turns out, quelle surprise - there have been no recent Ofgem regulation changes.

I would make a formal complaint to the energy company - they shouldn't be misleading customers in this way.  Whether it was deliberate, or just due to poor staff training, either way they should have better systems in place to ensure customers are only given truthful responses.  IMV a gesture of goodwill should be offered to make up for the time and trouble it took you to research the facts.

[Deleted User]

chaotic_j said:

Hi,

Apologies to bump an old thread but last year after some to-ing and fro-ing with the energy provider they advised (amongst other things) that a) traditional meters could be obtained but had a longer wait and b) they could install a smart meter in 'dumb' mode.. etc.

I've now got in touch to go with option a) and they say it's not possible, so I was considering option b) but again they say it's not possible, blaming Ofgem regulation changes.

So I asked what regulations and when did they change.. 'in the last month and we will send some information'. Anyway the information didn't make any sense and it turns out, quelle surprise - there have been no recent Ofgem regulation changes.

They said 'dumb' mode may be possible but only for health reasons.. 'what are your reasons for not wanting a smart meter in smart mode?'. I've several reasons and it's private!

So finally the real reason comes out as to why there is no alternative - it's because they thought installing in 'dumb' mode with an intention to activate at a later date would count towards Ofgem 2025 targets - but it doesn't.

As a consumer I'm unsure how this is my issue. I don't want a smart meter in smart mode and I'm not a luddite. I've done my research and have my reasons.

Where do I go from here?

I do believe from my research a replacement for a faulty meter has to be smart.. but also that energy companies are perfectly able to install smart meters in 'dumb' mode if requested.

Also about having the gas meter replaced at the same time with a smart meter.. apparently it's because 'both meters were likely installed on the same date and will be the same age' well it's only 10 years old - probably still in certification I suppose?

Regards,
chaotic_j

BEIS quietly changed the rules on end-of-life meters in the summer of 2020. Suppliers have an obligation to monitor the remaining life of the meters that they are responsible for. The suppliers argued that manufacturers were no longer producing analogue meters, and as they already have a legal right of entry into a property to change a meter, then the default position should be smart meters. The Senior Responsible Officer for smart metering within BEIS agreed this change.

In my view, there will come a day when the Government has to make smart meters mandatory. At the moment, the demand for smart meters is exceeding the industry’s ability to undertake the work. As more time of use tariffs are introduced, then the Government is hoping that more consumers will accept a smart meter. The days of choosing the cheapest tariff using kWh/year are numbered. We will see price comparison websites either becoming Registered DCC Users or partnering with an organisation that has this accreditation. Twelve months of historical usage (amount and time of use) will be used to determine the cheapest tariff.

My understanding, based on an exchange that I had with a DCC employee,  is that there is no such thing as a smart meter dumb mode. The term dumb relates solely to the fact that the supplier will not use smart meter readings for billing. When smart meters are installed, they have to be commissioned onto the system: this requires a live connection. The supplier also needs to send out meter firmware updates to protect the security of the DCC network, and it needs to monitor such things as the remaining life of the battery installed in the smart gas meter.

chaotic_j

Thanks @MWT I would certainly refuse daily and half-hourly meter readings. There is no benefit at all right now in me allowing this. Where is your graphic from / what should I quote to advise the energy company of this?

Oh @Section62 they have actually already opened a formal complaint for me but as I'm asking for a smart meter in 'dumb' mode which they say is not possible - we are currently at a stalemate. I can certainly ask for compensation due to being misled - how much would you suggest is appropriate?

It has taken a lot of time and effort in doing my research, the reason this has gone on so long is because I've been quite unwell and only just feeling a bit better!

That's very interesting @[Deleted User] I am a natural sceptic so am not surprised in the least about what you're suggesting..

MWT

chaotic_j said:

Thanks @MWT I would certainly refuse daily and half-hourly meter readings. There is no benefit at all right now in me allowing this. Where is your graphic from / what should I quote to advise the energy company of this?

Here is the website link: https://www.smartme.co.uk/about.html

You shouldn't get any push-back from the supplier over denying them access to half-hour/daily data.

Gerry1

MWT said:

chaotic_j said:

Thanks @MWT I would certainly refuse daily and half-hourly meter readings. There is no benefit at all right now in me allowing this. Where is your graphic from / what should I quote to advise the energy company of this?

Here is the website link: https://www.smartme.co.uk/about.html

@MWT That's an entirely unofficial site that admits to being run by a small group of people.  IMHO it's neither entirely unbiased nor particularly accurate, e.g. your linked page claims to have been updated on 22 August 2022 !

Worse, searching for any of the exact text in your graphic fails to bring up anything from BEIS: everything is derived from the smartme.co.uk site.

So I think we can take all its claims with a very large pinch of salt.

MWT

Gerry1 said:

So I think we can take all its claims with a very large pinch of salt.

Take as much salt as you want Gerry, I've yet to find anything in the segment I quoted to be inaccurate in terms of current BEIS/Ofgem statements/rules.

Gerry1

MWT said:

Gerry1 said:

So I think we can take all its claims with a very large pinch of salt.

Take as much salt as you want Gerry, I've yet to find anything in the segment I quoted to be inaccurate in terms of current BEIS/Ofgem statements/rules.

Let me put it another way.  Do you have any official links to those "BEIS/Ofgem statements/rules"?