Electric meter faulty - energy supplier wants to fit smart meters

vacheron

Gerry1 said:

vacheron said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

Taking a synthesis of all that I have read for and against smart meters I would still opt for keeping my non-smart one. The extra work in taking and submitting readings manually really does not add up to much, and doing this gives me greater ongoing insight into the state of my account. Apart from the hassle with smarties when changing suppliers and / or moving house.

There isn't any real "hassle" to smartmeters, when changing suppliers, at worst they work the same as a normal meter.

Nope.

A normal meter can't apply a massive Time of Use surcharge from 4pm - 7pm, nor limit your load to just a few kWh, nor cut you off remotely if you don't comply.

I was referring specifically to the OP's mention of the "hassle" they would create when moving house or changing suppliers (i.e. no more "hassle" in these instances than a standard meter would be). 

I'm aware of all the theories people have about surcharges, they are the same theories I heard when I first switched to smart meters almost a decade ago, yet here we are 8 years later... 

Gerry1

vacheron said:

Gerry1 said:

vacheron said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

Taking a synthesis of all that I have read for and against smart meters I would still opt for keeping my non-smart one. The extra work in taking and submitting readings manually really does not add up to much, and doing this gives me greater ongoing insight into the state of my account. Apart from the hassle with smarties when changing suppliers and / or moving house.

There isn't any real "hassle" to smartmeters, when changing suppliers, at worst they work the same as a normal meter.

Nope.

A normal meter can't apply a massive Time of Use surcharge from 4pm - 7pm, nor limit your load to just a few kWh, nor cut you off remotely if you don't comply.

I'm aware of all the theories people have about surcharges, they are the same theories I heard when I first switched to smart meters almost a decade ago, yet here we are 8 years later... 

Softly, softly catchee monkey...

Bulb wouldn't agree with you.  Their smart tariff charged up to 41p/kWh; presumably nobody would touch it with a bargepole so they had to lower the surcharged rates substantially... for the time being.

silverwhistle

What you are failing to mention with all your talk of 'surcharges' is that such tariffs vary and can also be very low. In the case of Octopus Agile I've even been paid to take electricity when prices were negative. My maximum is capped at 35p per unit, and you need to avoid using it at that price, but I find that easy enough. Others may not be able to, be incapable of doing so or just not want to, and fair enough. Those of us who are flexible can reduce our bills: I haven't checked my latest bill but when you are getting down to 8 or 9p on average it's worth doing.

The tariff, although experimental, is doing what it is designed to do and that is to take off loads at peak. The alternative is investing a lot more in (probably) fossil fuel plant and other infrastructure or, in critical situations, if they don't reduce demand, disconnect whole areas. If either of those two situations is what you want, please say so or suggest some intelligent alternatives, but in the meantime mine and others'  actions, stimulated by cost, will make those situations a little less likely.

Telegraph_Sam

My gut feeling is that many of us, myself included, would not use sufficient kwh's at the early morning cheap rates to compensate for the cost of kwh's used during the high rate periods. I am however not an EV-driver and can appreciate that seen from their perspective the situation will be different.

Gerry1

silverwhistle said:

If either of those two situations is what you want, please say so or suggest some intelligent alternatives, but in the meantime mine and others'  actions, stimulated by cost, will make those situations a little less likely.

It may be that rationing by ToU price, Load Limiting and Load Shedding is indeed the way to go.

But if so, it should only be implemented by consent, after open and transparent fully informed discussion and consultation... not something that's been sneaked in by sleight of hand and shiny toys that will never deliver the illusory benefits.

Not So Smart: Parliamentarians Report

bristolleedsfan

silverwhistle said:

What you are failing to mention with all your talk of 'surcharges' is that such tariffs vary and can also be very low. In the case of Octopus Agile I've even been paid to take electricity when prices were negative. My maximum is capped at 35p per unit, and you need to avoid using it at that price, but I find that easy enough. Others may not be able to, be incapable of doing so or just not want to, and fair enough. Those of us who are flexible can reduce our bills: I haven't checked my latest bill but when you are getting down to 8 or 9p on average it's worth doing.

Why is it that those on Agile tariff who probably do not number many more than 60000 ( if that) out of Octopus 2 million customers when plugging it on social media/this forum very consistent at telling everyone low average kwh rate they achieve (tiny minority of the country have Evs and/or Battery Storage) and mentioning what is very rare price plunges/getting paid to use Electricity after midnight ( How many instances have there been this year ???????)  they mention about 4pm-7pm maximum 35pkwh  yet not a word of warning/caution that large parts of daytime/off peak hours can hit 30p or very close to 30pkwh rate  as was the case during parts of January, before someone now answers with can change to another smart tariff, point I am making is it never gets saiid ...

bristolleedsfan

Just a random "agile 30p" search on twitter The EV Puzzle on Twitter: "@nextgenpower_ @sjcsystms @octopus_energy @GIVENERGY What cheap rates? That's the point. Of late it's been cheaper to not charge overnight as night prices weren't much lower than day rates. It's getting complex with high Agile prices.. Tonight ...what was expensive 12p, now seems cheap Vs 30p all day tomorrow." / Twitter

Telegraph_Sam

Whenever I read or hear the word "average" I get twitchy since this can hide such a load of half truths. In judging Agile or any other skewed tariff the proper yardstick would be the weighted average. (If I consume zero kwh at 3 am then it makes no difference if the price drops to zero or even into negative territory at that time)

bristolleedsfan

This was a month before January sky high daytime off peak agile rates, "Wind Farm Owner", "EV Driver", asking CEO/Founder of Octopus Energy whether a cap of 20p/kw could be put on Agile daytime/off peak Marc #MaskUp 💙 on Twitter: "Dear Greg @g__j @octopus_energy Could we look at putting a cap on the kw price during the hours between 7pm and 4pm please, something like 20p/kw? It seems disproportionate for those on the #Agile tariff to potentially pay (approx)300% more for their daytime electricity 1/2" / Twitter 

No doubt over a period of time those with Evs and/or Battery Storage have done well/ doing well on time of use tariff, however posts on this forum when they plugging it with average kwh rate they ( I, I, I, me me me) achieve mostly fail to mention they have a EV and/or battery storage, vast majority of population cannot currently afford to buy a EV and/or Battery Storage, those who plug Agile tariff on this forum as well as on social media and/or creating YouTube.videos when hoping to generate interest tapping up people who are with other energy companies only mention high rates up of to 35pkwh 4pm-7pm peak hours when potentially as well has been the case can be high kwh rates up to and including "all day" aka "off peak"

Telegraph_Sam

Last time I investigated battery storage to combine with my solar panels the costs : savings ratio worked out hopelessly against doing this.  I'm guessing that the same could be the case with Agile etc rates if anyone has done the maths.