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Are we allowed to return a computer chair?
Comments
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Carrot007 said:As argos would not let you build a chair to test on their premises then you should be able to return it and should also be due a 100% reduction in refund.
I didn't know Argos had seats in the House of Commons. Are they represented on the Supreme court too?
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julie777 - for clarification:1. did you buy from Wayfair in the UK or in Ireland?2. the above discussion is mostly about the consumer's right under UK law to cancel and to return online purchases (ie "change of mind" returns) within 14 days of delivery. Are you trying to do that, or are you trying to use Wayfair's own 30 day return policy that you mention above? If the latter, they can impose whatever conditions they like after the 14 days stautory period has expired.3. are you arguing for a "change of mind" refund (eg because the chair is ok but doesn't meet your expectations) or are you trying to argue that it's faulty/defective because it's not as described or not working as it is meant to?1
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Manxman_in_exile said:julie777 - for clarification:1. did you buy from Wayfair in the UK or in Ireland?2. the above discussion is mostly about the consumer's right under UK law to cancel and to return online purchases (ie "change of mind" returns) within 14 days of delivery. Are you trying to do that, or are you trying to use Wayfair's own 30 day return policy that you mention above? If the latter, they can impose whatever conditions they like after the 14 days stautory period has expired.3. are you arguing for a "change of mind" refund (eg because the chair is ok but doesn't meet your expectations) or are you trying to argue that it's faulty/defective because it's not as described or not working as it is meant to?
2. We are still with the 14 days it was delivered on 28th I believe.
3. After the advice received here have emailed with all reasons the chair is not suitable . It is not really that we changed our minds but that the chair is not comfortable in any way, is a little shorter than advertised etc. Also told them about the regulations you guys found for us.
Happy to receive any further tips. Many thanks. Julie.0 -
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julie777 said:WHERE DO WE GO NOW?
Guys, thank you all for your assistance.
Wayfair have said if we keep the chair they will give us 15% back - what generosity! Why would we want such an uncomfortable chair which is shorter than they specified! So I have now put in for a chargeback on the credit card. CC did demur at first, on the phone, (as Jenni_D predicted) saying that comfort is subjective. But I put in a claim form anyway telling them it is defective.
Should I rely on this to get back the money or pursue Wayfair with the following email?
Perhaps the letter answers some of your questions but I will also say there is no headrest adjustment it is built in. The address on the invoice is Galway, Ireland so expensive to ship. The dismantling problem was not accurate before - I misunderstood. But still it will not fit in original box. We could easily cut the original in half and tape in extra cardboard.
TO WAYFAIR
On seeking advice on our statutory rights we find that :-1.The seller is supposed to give printed or email notice about Returns when order is placed. We do not appear to have received that. This means you cannot make deductions even if the buyer changes their mind.
2. Refusal to cancel the order or accept a return because of the assembled parts of the chair is not allowed by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 28 .
3. It is entirely essential to construct a chair before the buyer can know its “characteristics and functionality” You therefore cannot accuse us of “unnecessary handling”. - See The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 34(9). You therefore cannot make a deduction for that from our refund.
4. You cannot demand that a product be packed in original box for return when its very design makes full dismantling impossible. The piston cannot be removed from the base and the mechanism cannot be removed from under the seat.
5. We claim that the chair is “defective” in its design as the “headrest” is too low for a 5’9” user and the seat has a noticeably uncomfortable ridge across it. Your own Returns policy says if the goods are defective you will work with the buyer for a resolution or words to that effect.
6. We also say it is “not fit for purpose” because it is too uncomfortable to sit on!
7. It is also misdescribed on the website.
a) Mainly in the length of the back. We measured it as you see from the photos and it is less than 72cm. On top of that, the bottom edge slides a little behind the seat making it even shorter. b) The seat width is brought in at each side by the width of the arms therefore the advertised 52.5cm seat will not take a 52.5cm backside. We feel that is misleading.
8. On the box it says weight capacity is 154kg and my son, the recipient of the gift is much smaller than that yet it is too small for him in width and height. Online your website says if it
“Is not a perfect fit you can return within 30 days………” It certainly was not a perfect fit in any way.
3. Disagree. Establishing it's nature, characteristics and function doesn't mean trying it out. It means establishing that it's a (for example) black office chair.
5. Not everyone is made to the same proportions. Although I am assuming that the goods were not advertised as specifically being suitable for someone who is 5'9"
6. It's purpose is to be sat on, so the goods are fit for purpose. What you'd be looking for is not of satisfactory quality but it's not clear cut with comfort as we're all different.
7. It depends on how they gave the dimensions. Some give the constructed dimension which is effectively the exterior dimensions while others give the interior dimensions. It also depends on the difference. A few mm might be expected, with tolerance for slight differences in manufacture and construction.
And I know there's been some discussion over statutory rights via policy, so I'll just give a reminder that the minimum period for your statutory rights is 14 days beginning the day after delivery. But it's only the case if they complied with their obligations - such as giving you information on the right to cancel (can be a "model cancellation form"). If they don't give you the information at the time of entering the contract then its 14 days starting the day after they do give it. If they never give it then the cancellation period is 1 year and 14 days from the day after the contract is entered into.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride1 -
Jenni_D said:1. Online from which website? This one? https://www.wayfair.co.uk/0
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to unholy angel - I was putting in every point which could apply to avoid them wriggling out of it, but I admit I don't know the legal meaning of all the terms, such as fit for purpose. Other contributors agreed with me that a chair has to be constructed to see if it is suitable.0
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unholyangel said:julie777 said:WHERE DO WE GO NOW?
Guys, thank you all for your assistance.
Wayfair have said if we keep the chair they will give us 15% back - what generosity! Why would we want such an uncomfortable chair which is shorter than they specified! So I have now put in for a chargeback on the credit card. CC did demur at first, on the phone, (as Jenni_D predicted) saying that comfort is subjective. But I put in a claim form anyway telling them it is defective.
Should I rely on this to get back the money or pursue Wayfair with the following email?
Perhaps the letter answers some of your questions but I will also say there is no headrest adjustment it is built in. The address on the invoice is Galway, Ireland so expensive to ship. The dismantling problem was not accurate before - I misunderstood. But still it will not fit in original box. We could easily cut the original in half and tape in extra cardboard.
TO WAYFAIR
On seeking advice on our statutory rights we find that :-1.The seller is supposed to give printed or email notice about Returns when order is placed. We do not appear to have received that. This means you cannot make deductions even if the buyer changes their mind.
2. Refusal to cancel the order or accept a return because of the assembled parts of the chair is not allowed by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 28 .
3. It is entirely essential to construct a chair before the buyer can know its “characteristics and functionality” You therefore cannot accuse us of “unnecessary handling”. - See The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 34(9). You therefore cannot make a deduction for that from our refund.
4. You cannot demand that a product be packed in original box for return when its very design makes full dismantling impossible. The piston cannot be removed from the base and the mechanism cannot be removed from under the seat.
5. We claim that the chair is “defective” in its design as the “headrest” is too low for a 5’9” user and the seat has a noticeably uncomfortable ridge across it. Your own Returns policy says if the goods are defective you will work with the buyer for a resolution or words to that effect.
6. We also say it is “not fit for purpose” because it is too uncomfortable to sit on!
7. It is also misdescribed on the website.
a) Mainly in the length of the back. We measured it as you see from the photos and it is less than 72cm. On top of that, the bottom edge slides a little behind the seat making it even shorter. b) The seat width is brought in at each side by the width of the arms therefore the advertised 52.5cm seat will not take a 52.5cm backside. We feel that is misleading.
8. On the box it says weight capacity is 154kg and my son, the recipient of the gift is much smaller than that yet it is too small for him in width and height. Online your website says if it
“Is not a perfect fit you can return within 30 days………” It certainly was not a perfect fit in any way.
3. Disagree. Establishing it's nature, characteristics and function doesn't mean trying it out. It means establishing that it's a (for example) black office chair.
Seems a lot of words to cover simply that the goods are what they should be.In the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces1 -
I agree.
GOOD NEWS friends - Wayfair have responded to the emailed letter and have said they are making a full refund and have asked
UPS to collect. My husband just spent an hour creating a box the right size and taping everything securely as we didn't have much notice - it could be collected tomorrow.
THANKS to everyone. XXXXX4 -
julie777 said:to unholy angel - I was putting in every point which could apply to avoid them wriggling out of it, but I admit I don't know the legal meaning of all the terms, such as fit for purpose. Other contributors agreed with me that a chair has to be constructed to see if it is suitable.unholyangel said:julie777 said:WHERE DO WE GO NOW?
Guys, thank you all for your assistance.
Wayfair have said if we keep the chair they will give us 15% back - what generosity! Why would we want such an uncomfortable chair which is shorter than they specified! So I have now put in for a chargeback on the credit card. CC did demur at first, on the phone, (as Jenni_D predicted) saying that comfort is subjective. But I put in a claim form anyway telling them it is defective.
Should I rely on this to get back the money or pursue Wayfair with the following email?
Perhaps the letter answers some of your questions but I will also say there is no headrest adjustment it is built in. The address on the invoice is Galway, Ireland so expensive to ship. The dismantling problem was not accurate before - I misunderstood. But still it will not fit in original box. We could easily cut the original in half and tape in extra cardboard.
TO WAYFAIR
On seeking advice on our statutory rights we find that :-1.The seller is supposed to give printed or email notice about Returns when order is placed. We do not appear to have received that. This means you cannot make deductions even if the buyer changes their mind.
2. Refusal to cancel the order or accept a return because of the assembled parts of the chair is not allowed by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 28 .
3. It is entirely essential to construct a chair before the buyer can know its “characteristics and functionality” You therefore cannot accuse us of “unnecessary handling”. - See The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 34(9). You therefore cannot make a deduction for that from our refund.
4. You cannot demand that a product be packed in original box for return when its very design makes full dismantling impossible. The piston cannot be removed from the base and the mechanism cannot be removed from under the seat.
5. We claim that the chair is “defective” in its design as the “headrest” is too low for a 5’9” user and the seat has a noticeably uncomfortable ridge across it. Your own Returns policy says if the goods are defective you will work with the buyer for a resolution or words to that effect.
6. We also say it is “not fit for purpose” because it is too uncomfortable to sit on!
7. It is also misdescribed on the website.
a) Mainly in the length of the back. We measured it as you see from the photos and it is less than 72cm. On top of that, the bottom edge slides a little behind the seat making it even shorter. b) The seat width is brought in at each side by the width of the arms therefore the advertised 52.5cm seat will not take a 52.5cm backside. We feel that is misleading.
8. On the box it says weight capacity is 154kg and my son, the recipient of the gift is much smaller than that yet it is too small for him in width and height. Online your website says if it
“Is not a perfect fit you can return within 30 days………” It certainly was not a perfect fit in any way.
3. Disagree. Establishing it's nature, characteristics and function doesn't mean trying it out. It means establishing that it's a (for example) black office chair.
Seems a lot of words to cover simply that the goods are what they should be.
Functioning - what purpose they have
Characteristics - traits
It doesn't expand into "try before you buy" territory. But if the measurements were out by more than a reasonable tolerance, it looks like OP has return rights under CRA - in which case the retailer would be responsible for collecting the goods, unless the OP has agreed to return them (although it would still be at retailer's cost).
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride1
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