Are we allowed to return a computer chair?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

powerful_Rogue said:

julie777 said:

CANNOT RETURN UNCOMFORTABLE COMPUTER CHAIR
Please can anyone advise us on this. We bought a computer chair online for £140 from Wayfair. Having put it together we find it is uncomfortable and the headrest is too low even though the user is only 5'9". The company says we cannot return it because it has to go back in the original box. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do that because it is constructed in such a way that you cannot later separate the legs from the seat. We ordered on 24th Jan. Tesco Credit card say it is not faulty or damaged so they cannot help. 
Please let us know if you can suggest a course of action? Or perhaps you know what the law says?
Many thanks.

If they have complied with the law, which looking at thier t&c's I would say is most certainly a given - Have you worked out how much it's going to cost you to get the chair back to them in it's unpacked and built state?

I also imagine the refund would have a fair % deducted as the would have to try and sell a used pre built chair, with the additinal postage costs

https://www.wayfair.co.uk/help/article/return_policy

Regardless of our return conditions, your statutory right of withdrawal applies.

That link goes to T&Cs.

They are extensive so I only skimmed but couldn't see where they detail the right to cancel? Do you have a quote?

mattyprice4004

If you can’t return it as you received it you can’t expect a 100% refund as Wayfair can’t sell it as new. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

mattyprice4004 said:

If you can’t return it as you received it you can’t expect a 100% refund as Wayfair can’t sell it as new. 

Did you read the rest of the thread?

The retailer's ability to resell something isn't what links their ability to make a deduction and it would be nice to stop seeing this stated here as it's incorrect. 

Carrot007

As argos would not let you build a chair to test on their premises then you should be able to return it and should also be due a 100% reduction in refund.

elsien

Where does Argos come into it? 

julie777

WHERE DO WE GO NOW?

Guys, thank you all for your assistance. 

Wayfair have  said if we keep the chair they will give us 15% back - what generosity! Why would we want such an uncomfortable chair which is shorter than they specified! So I have now put in  for a chargeback on the credit card. CC  did demur at first, on the phone, (as Jenni_D predicted) saying that comfort is subjective. But I put in a claim form anyway telling them it is defective. 

Should I rely on this to get back the money or pursue Wayfair with the following email?

Perhaps the  letter answers some of your questions but I will also say there is no headrest adjustment it is built in. The address on the invoice is Galway, Ireland so expensive to ship.   The dismantling problem was not accurate before - I misunderstood. But still it will not fit in original box. We could easily cut the original in half and tape in extra cardboard. 

TO WAYFAIR 

On seeking advice on our statutory rights we find that :-

1.The seller is supposed to give printed or email notice about Returns when order is placed. We do not appear to have received that. This means you cannot make deductions even if the buyer changes their mind.

2. Refusal  to cancel the order or accept a return because of the assembled parts of the chair is not allowed by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 28 . 

3. It is entirely essential to construct a chair before the buyer can know its “characteristics and functionality” You therefore cannot accuse us of “unnecessary handling”. - See The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 34(9). You therefore cannot make a deduction for that from our refund.

4. You cannot demand that a product be packed in original box for return when its very design makes full dismantling impossible.  The piston cannot be removed from the base and the mechanism cannot be removed from under the seat.

5. We claim that the chair is “defective” in its design as the “headrest” is too low for a 5’9”  user and the seat has a noticeably uncomfortable ridge across it. Your own Returns policy says if the goods are defective you will work with the buyer for a resolution or words to that effect.

6. We also say it is “not fit for purpose” because it is too uncomfortable to sit on!

7. It is also misdescribed on the website. 

a) Mainly in the length of the back. We measured it as you see from the photos and it is less than 72cm. On top of that, the bottom edge slides a little behind the seat making it even shorter. b) The seat width is brought in at each side by the width of the arms therefore the advertised 52.5cm seat will not take a 52.5cm backside. We feel that is misleading.

8. On the box it says weight capacity is 154kg and my son, the recipient of the gift is much smaller than that  yet it is too small for him in width and height. Online your website says if it     

“Is not a perfect fit you can return within 30 days………” It certainly was not a perfect fit in any way.

George_Michael

julie777 said:

WHERE DO WE GO NOW?

Guys, thank you all for your assistance. 

Wayfair have  said if we keep the chair they will give us 15% back - what generosity! Why would we want such an uncomfortable chair which is shorter than they specified! So I have now put in  for a chargeback on the credit card. CC  did demur at first, on the phone, (as Jenni_D predicted) saying that comfort is subjective. But I put in a claim form anyway telling them it is defective. 

What you meant to state was that you lied on the claim form.
If Wayfair dispute the chargeback and state that the only reason for the original returns request was that you stated that the chair was uncomfortable then there is a very good chance that the chargeback will not be granted.

sheramber

Wayfair can challenge the chargeback so don't count on it just yet. it may be credited to your account but of the challenge is successful the bank will take the money back.

Manxman_in_exile

powerful_Rogue said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I don't see how you can ".establish the nature, characteristics and functioning..." of a chair that has been bought online as self-assembly without actually assembling it - so I don't think any arguments about excessive handling reducing the value of the chair would have any validity.  If you were buying instore - as opposed to online - the first thing you would do is try it for size, check if it's comfortable and try all the adjustments.  You can only do all these things that you would normally do instore after you've assembled the online product at home.

(We had a similar problem back in April with a rowing m/c my wife bought.  Once we had assembled it and had both tried it my wife declared it was not satisfactory or fit for pupose - she is a "proper" rower - although it wasn't faulty in any way.  Initially the supplier argued that they would reduce any change of mind refund “if the item has been used or opened, a minimum of 20% will be deducted from your refund upon evaluation of the item”.  Several posters here declared that we had used it too much for a full refund, but when my wife challenged  the supplier they backed down and gave her a full refund.  We disassembled the m/c and put it back in the original box - which we'd kept.  It took ages to take apart and fit back in the box correctly.  https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6133694/rowing-m-c-return-online-purchase-unnecessary-handling/p1)

So - I would say that the fact the OP has assembled the chair does not amount to excessive handling and should not be a bar to getting a full refund.  And neither should not having the original box - which as the_lunatic says is not a lawful reason not to refund.  I don't really understand why the OP cannot disassemble the chair and use their own packing material - or demand something suitable from the supplier.  If they've assembled it, surely they can disassemble it?  It took us a good couple of hours to take the rowing m/c apart and pack it away - but we did it.

Oh - I'd also just ask the OP if they've tried to adjust the headrest.   

(All this is assuming they're within the statutory "change of mind" period)

Hello retailer, I want to send this chair back which I can't disassemble. I also demand that you send me some packaging as I have thrown it away. I then require a full refund.

I'm not particularly bothered about the packaging bit as I find it hard to believe that the OP and their partner can't remove the legs from the chair.  If they've assembled it I'm sure they can take it apart and get it packed up for return to Wayfair.  If they can't then they need to discuss this with Wayfair so that a solution can be reached allowing them to exercise their statutory rights.

I'm more concerned about (1) pointing out that the original packaging is irrelevant and that (2) assembling a self-assembly chair and trying it out is the only way to establish its nature, characteristics and functioning, and does not amount to excessive/unnecessary handling warranting a reduction in the refund, because it's simply allowing the purchaser to do what they would naturally do in a shop.

So yes - they are entitled to a full refund, and if the chair is designed so it can't be disassembled, that does not reduce the refund.  Wayfair can't get round the consumer's right by arguing that the item is reduced in value because the product is poorly designed.  (If Wayfair want to prevent a reduction in value they need to source better products)

I'm happy to accept that the OP might have to pay for the return, but that doesn't affect the value of the refund for the chair - except insofar as Wayfair arrange it and deduct the cost from the refund.  The OP needs to work with Wayfair to sort out a reasonable way of doing this.

I disagree. Luckily that is why we have judges.

By all means test something out as per the legislation, however if you can't return it as you received it, then yes, you should have a % taken from the overall refund.

If I then bought the same chair from retailer, I don't want it turning up partly assembled without the correct packaging. I pay for new, I expect new.

But your expectations ("I pay for new, I expect new") as to what you are entitled to when you think you are buying something new online are legally irrelevant and also unrealistic under current consumer legislation. 

The law allows online retailers to sell as new products that they have already sold to someone else where that someone else has exercised their statutory right to cancel the order and has returned the product for a full refund.  If you are in the habit of buying a lot of stuff online, the probablity is that a reasonable proportion of what you buy is not "new" and has previously been returned by someone else for a full refund.  You may be fooled because it's in the original packaging and think it meets your expectations of being "new", but is it really "new"?

The statutory right to cancel and get a full refund doesn't say anything about original packaging.  A judge would have to make that bit up to rule that those rights were conditional on using the original packaging - although that of course doesn't prevent some unscrupulous firms who want to prevent consumers exercising their rights from trying it on.

And if the chair can't be taken apart after it's been assembled in order to exercise the consumer's right to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the chair (eg to check that it is sufficiently adjustable and supportive etc when assembled - which appears to be the main reason for cancelling) then the retailer should be advised to source chairs of a better design - or ensure that their pricing model accommodates these problems.  It shouldn't be used as a reason for evading the consumer's rights.

Anyway, I can see from subsequent posts that the OP seems to have decided to followed a different path...

Manxman_in_exile

mattyprice4004 said:

If you can’t return it as you received it you can’t expect a 100% refund as Wayfair can’t sell it as new. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

mattyprice4004 said:

If you can’t return it as you received it you can’t expect a 100% refund as Wayfair can’t sell it as new. 

Did you read the rest of the thread?

The retailer's ability to resell something isn't what links their ability to make a deduction and it would be nice to stop seeing this stated here as it's incorrect. 

Quite.  Where does it say in the legislation that the retailer has to be able to sell it as new?  If they have to sell it as "used" or "pre-owned" then that's what they will have to do.  How the retailer deals with the returned goods after they've refunded the consumer is irrelevant to the consumer's right to cancel.  (Although, as you say, it often seems to be stated on these boards that the retailer has to be able to resell as new for the consumer to get a full refund).