Which energy companies are not pushing smart meters?

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  • Zellah
    Zellah Posts: 303 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 3 February 2021 at 8:19PM
    Gerry1 said:
    Zellah said:
    Gerry1 said:

    If you already know that using electricity costs money then no, it shouldn't save you money in that case. I don't believe there are any negative effects from having a smart meter installed so I don't really see why people are opposed to them when it doesn't cost them anything.
    What next will these smart meters be able to do............
    • Time of Use Tariffs: Rip-off prices between 4pm - 8pm or whatever.
    • Load Limiting: Rationed to just a few kW when supply exceeds demand.
    • Load Shedding: Remote disconnection applied if the above haven't reduced demand sufficiently.
    Not a conspiracy theory, it's all in the smart meter specification. They've just forgotten to tell you.  Gotcha !
    My smets2 meters don't do any of the above. Do you think they could be faulty?
    See my post above.  Do you deny that all of these facilities are built into SMETS2 meters?
    No, I’m not denying that. But are these features likely to be used in UK? Extremely unlikely. It’s a bit like saying we’ll all be allowed to drive at 150 mph one day just because the speed gauge shows this on many cars. You have to separate between what COULD happen to what WILL happen.  So far , none of these features have been implemented in uk. 
  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 9,936 Forumite
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    Zellah said:
    Gerry1 said:
    Zellah said:
    My smets2 meters don't do any of the above. Do you think they could be faulty?
    See my post above.  Do you deny that all of these facilities are built into SMETS2 meters?
    No, I’m not denying that. But are these features likely to be used in UK? Extremely unlikely. It’s a bit like saying we’ll all be allowed to drive at 150 mph one day just because the speed gauge shows this on many cars. You have to separate what COULD happen to what WILL happen.  
    So why do you think that all those very expensive features and hardware have been specified and included in smart meters?  Just for the sheer fun of it?
  • Zellah
    Zellah Posts: 303 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 3 February 2021 at 8:33PM
    Gerry1 said:
    Zellah said:
    Gerry1 said:
    Zellah said:
    My smets2 meters don't do any of the above. Do you think they could be faulty?
    See my post above.  Do you deny that all of these facilities are built into SMETS2 meters?
    No, I’m not denying that. But are these features likely to be used in UK? Extremely unlikely. It’s a bit like saying we’ll all be allowed to drive at 150 mph one day just because the speed gauge shows this on many cars. You have to separate what COULD happen to what WILL happen.  
    So why do you think that all those very expensive features and hardware have been specified and included in smart meters?  Just for the sheer fun of it?
    Simple. They’ve been catered for ALL countries in the world. They’re not going to develop different smart meters for different countries now are they? Just because  features are available doesn’t mean they must be implemented everywhere. So for example , in countries where load shedding is common/necessary, then of course a smart meter makes it easier to manage the load. But when was the last time load shedding was carried out in the UK on a regular basis? My point exactly. 
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper
    edited 3 February 2021 at 9:04PM
    Gerry is correct. In theory, suppliers could limit demand via a smart meter through disconnections but there is no practical way of a supplier/customer checking that a demand has been reduced unless the meter is turned back on. Yes, essential loads can be protected by use of ALCS schedules. It is easy to cite what might happen in extremis to build an anti smart meter case - however, Ofgem now suggests it will manage demand response in various ways including ToU tariffs; messages on the IHD and though incentives.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/579774/291116_-_Smart_meters__Demand_Side_Response_leaflet_-_DR_-_FINAL.PDF

    Quote: It will be the consumer’s choice whether they decide to use load control services, or time of use tariffs. Access to any consumption data necessary to enable these services will be governed by the smart metering Data Access and Privacy Framework. Unquote

    For example, SSE has just published this scheme for businesses:

    Quote: SSE Enterprise has launched a new demand side response platform to allow businesses to benefit from helping to balance the grid.

    Manufacturers, building managers, local councils and other large energy users can access the wholesale market, Balancing Mechanism and ancillary services through the platform dubbed SSE Enhance, allowing them to generate income by altering their consumption. 

    By reducing their electricity demand during peak periods, or reducing their own peaks using optimisation and automation of local demand and generation and storage, companies can contribute to keeping the grid balanced. Unquote

    I standby my earlier statement that energy disconnection for whatever reason requires a Court Order. It just isn’t going to happen.


  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 9,936 Forumite
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    Zellah said:
    Gerry1 said:
    So why do you think that all those very expensive features and hardware have been specified and included in smart meters?  Just for the sheer fun of it?
    Simple. They’ve been catered for ALL countries in the world. They’re not going to develop different smart meters for different countries now are they?
    Yeah, right.  This Californian meter will work perfectly with the UK's 230V 50Hz system, with absolutely no safety or accuracy problems whatsoever...
    ...
  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 9,936 Forumite
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    Dolor said:

    I standby my earlier statement that energy disconnection for whatever reason requires a Court Order.

    Fast forward to one night next week and imagine what happens if there's zero wind, a big chill and various power stations are off line or at reduced capacity.
    • Demand exceeds supply. Some industrial users switch off (or are switched off) in accordance with existing load shedding agreements, ToU tariffs etc.
    • Demand still exceeds supply, so there's a 3% voltage reduction.
    • Demand still exceeds supply, so the voltage reduction becomes 6%.
    • Demand STILL exceeds supply.
    Do they rush out to get tens of thousands of Court orders to disconnect households?  No, thought not.
  • Gerry1 said:
    Dolor said:

    I standby my earlier statement that energy disconnection for whatever reason requires a Court Order.

    Fast forward to one night next week and imagine what happens if there's zero wind, a big chill and various power stations are off line or at reduced capacity.
    • Demand exceeds supply. Some industrial users switch off (or are switched off) in accordance with existing load shedding agreements, ToU tariffs etc.
    • Demand still exceeds supply, so there's a 3% voltage reduction.
    • Demand still exceeds supply, so the voltage reduction becomes 6%.
    • Demand STILL exceeds supply.
    Do they rush out to get tens of thousands of Court orders to disconnect households?  No, thought not.
    Gerry - please stop frightening the masses. Yes, suppliers may well seek to reduce power demands by invoking contractural arrangements with consumers - mainly businesses. Thirty years ago, my company had a contract in place whereby we would reduce demand in the Winter (usually during a very cold spell) when demand was likely to outweigh supply by switching to onsite generators. By entering into this arrangement, we got a much reduced business supply contract. There is nothing new here. Managing demand and supply has always been a challenge. Smart meters have the potential to make this challenge easier but believe what you will.
  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 9,936 Forumite
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    edited 24 October 2023 at 5:53PM
    @[Deleted User] I'm sure you know very well that area Load Shedding has taken place ever since electricity was first distributed.  When you can't meet the demand and you've reduced the voltage by 3% and 6%, that's all you can do, it's illegal to reduce the voltage any further.  There were numerous power cuts during the Three Day Week and they certainly didn't get a court order for everyone they had to cut off.
    I've never disagreed that smart meters make the challenge easier for the industry, e.g. you can ration or cut off thousands of people via their smart meters without risking the well-being of kidney dialysis patients: smart meters allow disconnections to be far more granular than crude blackouts of wide areas.
    What I object to is all the stealth and deception involved.  They should have been honest and transparent from the start, stating that their policy is to skimp on network resilience by failing to invest in sufficient new generating capacity, and that before very long consumers will have to obey their smart meters and ration their usage at times of peak demand when the renewable generating capacity proves to be insufficient.
    It may well be that many consumers would prefer to pay less and be rationed or load shed from time to time, but their prior agreement should have been asked for and obtained, this rationing strategy should not be being quietly imposed on everyone with shiny toys and false promises of energy savings that will never materialise.
  • The reverse of the thread here, is any body aware of any energy company that dose push type 2 smart meters?
    CV37 where I live, I can't get any one to take my custom with the asurance of a type 2 meter being fitted even when I provide my full address and the fact that I have a dumb type one meter. Eon who's installer that I meet regularly insist that they have type 2 meters but won't guarantee me one if I move to them. Utility point that I am with now don't give a ... towards smart meters.
  • Ectophile
    Ectophile Posts: 7,311 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    edited 4 February 2021 at 12:19AM
    Imagine the situation of an elderly couple living in an all-electric house with night storage heaters.
    One cold winter's day, their electricity supplier decides to limit each user to 5kW because there's an electricity shortage.  But the couple don't know, because how would they?
    12.30am comes around, and all the storage heaters turn on.  The power immediately switches off.  They have no lights, no heating, and no way they can reset it.
    Imagine that happening again and again all over the country.
    There would be such an outcry that the energy companies would have to promise never to do it again.
    There are a few very large electricity users whose contracts explicitly allow the supplier to turn off the power if there's a shortage.  Those customers have backup generators.  And they get a discount on their bills.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
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