Which energy companies are not pushing smart meters?

135

Comments

  • Gerry1 said:e

    If you already know that using electricity costs money then no, it shouldn't save you money in that case. I don't believe there are any negative effects from having a smart meter installed so I don't really see why people are opposed to them when it doesn't cost them anything.
    What next will these smart meters be able to do............
    • Time of Use Tariffs: Rip-off prices between 4pm - 8pm or whatever.
    • Load Limiting: Rationed to just a few kW when supply exceeds demand.
    • Load Shedding: Remote disconnection applied if the above haven't reduced demand sufficiently.
    Not a conspiracy theory, it's all in the smart meter specification. They've just forgotten to tell you.  Gotcha !
    I think that we get it that you are 100% against smart meters. There is no State conspiracy going on here. ToU tariffs DO save consumers money, and I have spreadsheets that prove it - even with a peak cost of 35p/kWh - but it does require consumers to be proactive and use high use energy devices when demand is low and and energy is cheap. Load limiting relates to high use items such as EVSEs. There is no suggestion that suppliers will turn down the power for normal domestic activities: indeed, it isn’t even physically possible to do so unless the device has inbuilt power reduction capabilities as Grid voltage has to be within the range 216.2 to 253 volts. Remote disconnection of all domestic supplies requires a Court Order and, even with a Court Order, no supplier is going to flick any remote disconnection switch without making 100% sure that it is for the correct property, and that power isn’t essential; eg, for home kidney dialysis. 

    Rather than concentrate on the negatives of smart meters as you see them, why not mention the fact that a smarter Grid will reduce generation and maintenance costs. Better profiling of customer usage using HH usage monitoring, means a reduced requirement for standby generators which reduces the overall cost of generation. Smart meters identify issues before they become faults. As I mentioned in a previous post, my DNO can check my home voltage without having to send someone out to fit CT clamps etc. Better monitoring should result in less outages and cheaper (than they might have been) bills going forward.

    I am not defending the UK’s smart meter programme as I think that it is another example of a badly run Government IT project. But we are where we are - warts ‘n’ all. I just wonder how many people will actually hold out when ToU tariffs are the norm, and standard tariffs are more expensive: my guess is very few.
  • A._Badger
    A._Badger Posts: 5,850 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    Gerry1 said:

    If you already know that using electricity costs money then no, it shouldn't save you money in that case. I don't believe there are any negative effects from having a smart meter installed so I don't really see why people are opposed to them when it doesn't cost them anything.
    What next will these smart meters be able to do............
    • Time of Use Tariffs: Rip-off prices between 4pm - 8pm or whatever.
    • Load Limiting: Rationed to just a few kW when supply exceeds demand.
    • Load Shedding: Remote disconnection applied if the above haven't reduced demand sufficiently.
    Not a conspiracy theory, it's all in the smart meter specification. They've just forgotten to tell you.  Gotcha !
    And that, of course, is the real reason behind the smart meter scam. Our innumerate politicians have realised that their beloved 'Green' energy, (despite costing  £12.9 billion in subsidies - about £470 for every home in the country!) still contributes less than 15% of the UK's annual requirements and on some days delivers almost nothing. Which is when you will be priced out of having the lights on or, when push really comes to shove, be back sitting in the darkness like we did during the three day week. 

    As Gerry1 says - they just don't want you to know that so they, their fellow travellers on the BBC and other 'Green' fantasists, simply refuse to admit what they are up to..    
  • Zellah
    Zellah Posts: 303 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper Photogenic
    Gerry1 said:

    If you already know that using electricity costs money then no, it shouldn't save you money in that case. I don't believe there are any negative effects from having a smart meter installed so I don't really see why people are opposed to them when it doesn't cost them anything.
    What next will these smart meters be able to do............
    • Time of Use Tariffs: Rip-off prices between 4pm - 8pm or whatever.
    • Load Limiting: Rationed to just a few kW when supply exceeds demand.
    • Load Shedding: Remote disconnection applied if the above haven't reduced demand sufficiently.
    Not a conspiracy theory, it's all in the smart meter specification. They've just forgotten to tell you.  Gotcha !
    My smets2 meters don't do any of the above. Do you think they could be faulty?
  • Swipe
    Swipe Posts: 5,084 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Zellah said:
    Gerry1 said:

    If you already know that using electricity costs money then no, it shouldn't save you money in that case. I don't believe there are any negative effects from having a smart meter installed so I don't really see why people are opposed to them when it doesn't cost them anything.
    What next will these smart meters be able to do............
    • Time of Use Tariffs: Rip-off prices between 4pm - 8pm or whatever.
    • Load Limiting: Rationed to just a few kW when supply exceeds demand.
    • Load Shedding: Remote disconnection applied if the above haven't reduced demand sufficiently.
    Not a conspiracy theory, it's all in the smart meter specification. They've just forgotten to tell you.  Gotcha !
    My smets2 meters don't do any of the above. Do you think they could be faulty?

    Coming soon ™


  • bristolleedsfan
    bristolleedsfan Posts: 12,081 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Photogenic
    edited 3 February 2021 at 6:39PM
    Dolor said:
    Gerry1 said:e

    If you already know that using electricity costs money then no, it shouldn't save you money in that case. I don't believe there are any negative effects from having a smart meter installed so I don't really see why people are opposed to them when it doesn't cost them anything.
    What next will these smart meters be able to do............
    • Time of Use Tariffs: Rip-off prices between 4pm - 8pm or whatever.
    • Load Limiting: Rationed to just a few kW when supply exceeds demand.
    • Load Shedding: Remote disconnection applied if the above haven't reduced demand sufficiently.
    Not a conspiracy theory, it's all in the smart meter specification. They've just forgotten to tell you.  Gotcha !
      ToU tariffs DO save consumers money, and I have spreadsheets that prove it - even with a peak cost of 35p/kWh - but it does require consumers to be proactive and use high use energy devices when demand is low and and energy is cheap.
    That is all very well when only around 60000 are on ToU tariffs .........a lot of those have been moaning this month ....
  • I do not think for a minute that tariffs like Octopus Agile will become widespread in the energy sector. I was on Agile but no longer as my energy needs have changed, and my energy usage is now almost exclusively Offpeak. I think that we can all look forward to ToU tariffs such as those in many other countries such as Canada with high peak; mid, and Offpeak times and rates. I also think that as EV; ASHP and home battery adoption increases, we will see more balancing of demand which, ironically, will reduce the spread of ToU prices. 
  • Zellah
    Zellah Posts: 303 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 3 February 2021 at 7:12PM
    Swipe said:
    Zellah said:
    Gerry1 said:

    If you already know that using electricity costs money then no, it shouldn't save you money in that case. I don't believe there are any negative effects from having a smart meter installed so I don't really see why people are opposed to them when it doesn't cost them anything.
    What next will these smart meters be able to do............
    • Time of Use Tariffs: Rip-off prices between 4pm - 8pm or whatever.
    • Load Limiting: Rationed to just a few kW when supply exceeds demand.
    • Load Shedding: Remote disconnection applied if the above haven't reduced demand sufficiently.
    Not a conspiracy theory, it's all in the smart meter specification. They've just forgotten to tell you.  Gotcha !
    My smets2 meters don't do any of the above. Do you think they could be faulty?

    Coming soon ™


    So are aliens....🤣
  • A._Badger
    A._Badger Posts: 5,850 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    Dolor said:
    Gerry1 said:e

    If you already know that using electricity costs money then no, it shouldn't save you money in that case. I don't believe there are any negative effects from having a smart meter installed so I don't really see why people are opposed to them when it doesn't cost them anything.
    What next will these smart meters be able to do............
    • Time of Use Tariffs: Rip-off prices between 4pm - 8pm or whatever.
    • Load Limiting: Rationed to just a few kW when supply exceeds demand.
    • Load Shedding: Remote disconnection applied if the above haven't reduced demand sufficiently.
    Not a conspiracy theory, it's all in the smart meter specification. They've just forgotten to tell you.  Gotcha !
    I think that we get it that you are 100% against smart meters. There is no State conspiracy going on here. ToU tariffs DO save consumers money, and I have spreadsheets that prove it - even with a peak cost of 35p/kWh - but it does require consumers to be proactive and use high use energy devices when demand is low and and energy is cheap. Load limiting relates to high use items such as EVSEs. There is no suggestion that suppliers will turn down the power for normal domestic activities: indeed, it isn’t even physically possible to do so unless the device has inbuilt power reduction capabilities as Grid voltage has to be within the range 216.2 to 253 volts. Remote disconnection of all domestic supplies requires a Court Order and, even with a Court Order, no supplier is going to flick any remote disconnection switch without making 100% sure that it is for the correct property, and that power isn’t essential; eg, for home kidney dialysis. 

    Rather than concentrate on the negatives of smart meters as you see them, why not mention the fact that a smarter Grid will reduce generation and maintenance costs. Better profiling of customer usage using HH usage monitoring, means a reduced requirement for standby generators which reduces the overall cost of generation. Smart meters identify issues before they become faults. As I mentioned in a previous post, my DNO can check my home voltage without having to send someone out to fit CT clamps etc. Better monitoring should result in less outages and cheaper (than they might have been) bills going forward.

    I am not defending the UK’s smart meter programme as I think that it is another example of a badly run Government IT project. But we are where we are - warts ‘n’ all. I just wonder how many people will actually hold out when ToU tariffs are the norm, and standard tariffs are more expensive: my guess is very few.
    Clearly, a state conspiracy is exactly what it is. The consumer is being lied to and manipulated by a spin of half-truths and concealed political aims.  I might have fewer objections to what is being done if mendacious politicians and eco zealots had been honest with the public.
    Talk of  'reduced generation costs', meanwhile, strikes me as pretty wide of the mark given the millions being squandered on subsidies and the deliberate running down of what is easily the cheapest source of energy in favour of ones that are inherently unreliable, expensive and environmentally damaging. 
     
  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 9,936 Forumite
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    edited 3 February 2021 at 8:08PM
    Dolor said:
    Gerry1 said:

    If you already know that using electricity costs money then no, it shouldn't save you money in that case. I don't believe there are any negative effects from having a smart meter installed so I don't really see why people are opposed to them when it doesn't cost them anything.
    What next will these smart meters be able to do............
    • Time of Use Tariffs: Rip-off prices between 4pm - 8pm or whatever.
    • Load Limiting: Rationed to just a few kW when supply exceeds demand.
    • Load Shedding: Remote disconnection applied if the above haven't reduced demand sufficiently.
    Not a conspiracy theory, it's all in the smart meter specification. They've just forgotten to tell you.  Gotcha !
    Load limiting relates to high use items such as EVSEs.  There is no suggestion that suppliers will turn down the power for normal domestic activities: indeed, it isn’t even physically possible to do so unless the device has inbuilt power reduction capabilities as Grid voltage has to be within the range 216.2 to 253 volts.
    WRONG.  Yes, Load Limiting relates to EVSEs but it also includes everything else.  If you had taken the trouble to read the specifications you would have been aware that with Load Limiting the total permitted power delivered by the smart meter is restricted.  Your reference to Grid voltage limits is completely irrelevant, Load Limiting does not reduce your voltage, it cuts you off completely if you refuse to obey.  This info from energy supplier SSE shows how their L+G E470 meters can ration you to 5kW:-

    Dolor said:
    Remote disconnection of all domestic supplies requires a Court Order and, even with a Court Order, no supplier is going to flick any remote disconnection switch without making 100% sure that it is for the correct property, and that power isn’t essential; eg, for home kidney dialysis.
    • You're talking about disconnection for non-payment.  I'm talking about Load Limiting, which forms part of the Demand Side Response strategy that will be enforced by smart meters.
    • In addition, all SMETS2 meters will be ‘future-proofed’ to support up to 5 HAN connected Auxiliary Load Switching Commands.  Source: 'How GB smart metering will support Demand Side Response?' (Dept of Energy and Climate Change)
    Conventional area-wide disconnections are problematic because of vulnerable consumers such as kidney dialysis patients.  They will have a special class of service to exempt them from Load Limiting and Load Shedding, so they will remain unaffected while ordinary folk with smart meters are rationed or cut off.  You are surely aware that smart meters are all individually addressed?
  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 9,936 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Zellah said:
    Gerry1 said:

    If you already know that using electricity costs money then no, it shouldn't save you money in that case. I don't believe there are any negative effects from having a smart meter installed so I don't really see why people are opposed to them when it doesn't cost them anything.
    What next will these smart meters be able to do............
    • Time of Use Tariffs: Rip-off prices between 4pm - 8pm or whatever.
    • Load Limiting: Rationed to just a few kW when supply exceeds demand.
    • Load Shedding: Remote disconnection applied if the above haven't reduced demand sufficiently.
    Not a conspiracy theory, it's all in the smart meter specification. They've just forgotten to tell you.  Gotcha !
    My smets2 meters don't do any of the above. Do you think they could be faulty?
    See my post above.  Do you deny that all of these facilities are built into SMETS2 meters?
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