New Builds Vs Old Builds

stuart45

I've worked in the trade all my working life, and as long as I can remember people have always complained about new builds, even the men building them. People often seem to think that the past was always better.
However I did notice a change in the 70's when most of the companies moved from direct to sub contract labour.
Don't think there is a good decade for houses as such. When there's loads of work about it brings the chancers in, when works tight, so are the prices and the Quality can suffer.

stuart45

bery_451 said:

- All old builds don't have cavity walls? Which latest decade of built houses have no cavity walls? 

- Are block & beam floors in new build have a empty void underneath?
 

I'll answer 2 of them. In the mid 30's the Public Health Act meant that solid clay brickwork needed protection such as render, tile hanging etc. In the mid 60's the regs brought in the first U value regs, which a normal 9 inch brick wall couldn't meet, but AAC blockwork could. The regs still don't say that a cavity must be used.
Block and beam floors are used where ground condition dictate.

strawb_shortcake

Pricing can vary within the same company, we've had lots of new developments by us. Two new estates by the same company with less than 3 miles between them, one was done by a Welsh division and priced by Welsh values (it's not in Wales) the other is based on Bristol prices and there is around £100k difference on the same houses. 
The Bristol ones seem to have ground to a halt on the building but others were fully sold about 18 months ago.
Crest Nicholson, which built the most expensive houses in the area have by far had the worst reviews as well as being the focal point for most criminal activity in the area.

jimbo22shark

Can confirm, I bought a new build a few years ago following the advice of friends and family who mostly live in old builds. Whilst they always complain about the cost of heating old homes etc, my house seems to be so much flimsier. To the point where I worry (probably irrationally) about the weight of my gym equipment in an upstairs bedroom. I suppose it's all swings and roundabouts as you get what you pay for, but I do envy their "solid" houses. If I were to buy again I can't help but think I would buy and older house. 

eve824

I would never buy a developer new build, as the ones I've seen & lived in (dad's house was a Taylor Wimpey) have been built incredibly cheaply, to a terrible standard and full of problems.
I am however not averse to living in a new build house, we are about to build our own house using a bespoke timber frame system (and yes, it's specially treated and fully watertight so not rot etc) and I know that I will be happy with the build quality because I will be managing it! The huge benefit of modern timber frame houses is that the insulation and air tightness is far superior to any block and brick built home and therefore they cost very little to heat and run. 

MovingForwards

My preference was old.

Had there been new / older new builds for what I paid for mine and had everything mine had, I would have considered it.

However, I wasn't prepared to pay £30k+ to have loads of neighbours and be surrounded by other big blocks, with factor charges, no garden, no views, electric heating, a layout that wouldn't meet my requirements and one less bedroom. Nor was I able to pay double what I did for mine, just to get the extra bedroom in an older new build and still have the above negatives.

I also wasn't interested in any equity loan just to get a new build.

jimbo22shark

eve824 said:

I would never buy a developer new build, as the ones I've seen & lived in (dad's house was a Taylor Wimpey) have been built incredibly cheaply, to a terrible standard and full of problems.
I am however not averse to living in a new build house, we are about to build our own house using a bespoke timber frame system (and yes, it's specially treated and fully watertight so not rot etc) and I know that I will be happy with the build quality because I will be managing it! The huge benefit of modern timber frame houses is that the insulation and air tightness is far superior to any block and brick built home and therefore they cost very little to heat and run. 

This is certainly the way to go if you can afford it!

bery_451

Doozergirl said:

There's a lot of questions there.  Which ones did you actually want answering? 

This builder sounds a bit like an idiot.   There isn't a right answer.   There were always bad builders and there still are.  I'm sure if the Victorian developers had hollow core developer doors and upvc windows available to them, they'd have used them.   They didn't build with foundations and they were freezing, so that's a bit of an issue too!    The walls of a Victorian house, once you've stripped the plaster back is shocking.  They cut corners too, but also age causes things to degenerate, including the mortar that holds the thing together!  

Yes, developer houses are done cheaply and often thrown up because they are built for pure profit.   They definitely could be built with a bit more expense!  But, if they had upvc in Victorian times you think they wouldn't have used it?   They used what they had available, it just happens to be more expensive now. 

A well built new house is far better built than most old houses, but you're comparing apples with oranges, really, because they're built differently and you'd never go back to building the way that we did before.    New houses are warm and efficient, old houses were built with natural materials that are expensive these days and methods incompatible with being energy efficient.  

I've owned and lived in everything from a 17th century timber framed cottage, through Georgian, Victorian, 1930s, 1970s, 80s to the timber framed house that we've just built.    So that's what I think about timber frame!  It will last as long as it is cared for and maintained. 

Each was different, each had different qualities that I liked and lacked others.  Even the house that I designed can't be everything!   It can't have an open fire because it's airtight.  It has to be boxy to prevent thermal bridging.   I had to choose which was most important.   Many building methods are totally incompatible with each other.   

People choose what is important to them and I know that homeowners of all types of houses can be disappointed or delighted by elements once they get to know their houses.  

Your builder was just doing what some do best.  Moan.  I say that as a builder! 

The wood used in that 17th century timber framed cottage is more likely strong woods such as oak or mahogany. 

Stripping the plaster back to bare brick/block in a old build, from there isn't it just the matter of putting insulated plasterboards on these bare stripped walls to give it similar energy efficiency to new builds? 

How do you maintain timber frame with liquid treatment or varnish in new builds when the frame is hidden behind brick and plaster and insulation, how does the homeowner access it to maintain the timber wood?

My history is not that good, got a D in GCSE History  Also Alexa & Google Assistant not helping me when asking them so do you know what decades Georgian & Victorian houses were built?

Shall I assume the most residential houses were built in the nation when after World War 2 finished in late 1945? What about houses that were built in the 30s before World War 2? How do these 2 old build houses compare?

You saying Victorian houses don't have solid concrete foundations?

Lastly wont new builds become outdated when government bans gas central heating boilers from 2025 to reduce co2 emissions for of course saving the planet. What you think can replace gas boilers from 2025, solar panels or underfloor heating or a new tech we don't know yet that will run off electric as always  ? 

RelievedSheff

jimbo22shark said:

eve824 said:

I would never buy a developer new build, as the ones I've seen & lived in (dad's house was a Taylor Wimpey) have been built incredibly cheaply, to a terrible standard and full of problems.
I am however not averse to living in a new build house, we are about to build our own house using a bespoke timber frame system (and yes, it's specially treated and fully watertight so not rot etc) and I know that I will be happy with the build quality because I will be managing it! The huge benefit of modern timber frame houses is that the insulation and air tightness is far superior to any block and brick built home and therefore they cost very little to heat and run. 

This is certainly the way to go if you can afford it!

You say that but we looked at a couple of "home builds" last time we were looking and they were not really that great a standard.

bery_451

Deleted_User said:

I'd be inclined to agree that you'd get a better quality build and service from one of the smaller developers rather than the big nationals (Taylor Wimpey, Persimmon etc). 

I had friends who viewed a Taylor Wimpey new build, despite the fact a family member of theirs worked for Taylor Wimpey and could likely get them a great deal on the house, they didn't buy it due to the poor quality build. Even the show home had many visible snags. Instead they bought a house on a smaller development by a lesser known developer and their house is beautiful with no issues whatsoever. 

Who are these small property developers and how does a home buyer search for them on rightmove or zoopla?