New Builds Vs Old Builds

bery_451

The other day I had a builder commenting on the work he did at a so called new build house and he was saying that the build quality of new builds homes are so bad that you cant trust the walls to hang up a cheap £5 painting from Argos.

I find it difficult to comprehend what he was saying because new builds are more expensive compared to old builds in any location so I searched new builds online and I see there's thousands of complaints from unhappy New build customers living in such dodgy conditions. Conditions like windows not closing properly, sewer drainage problems, leak problems, large gaps, tiny room spaces, roof leaks, unfinished/missing fittings and many more more probs. Got me thinking why buyers are paying such a higher premium over old builds for a new build? Is it to save on gas/electric bills and to get that new cosmetic look that wont last long anyway?

Old builds are better quality the builder says, built solidly and good quality hence you see them still standing after all these decades he says and he said most new builds are timber framed construction stating in 50 years time these new builds will rot cause of timber wood and hence these new builds will become unsaleable. This is after the 30 year mortgage has been paid off so banks don't really care as its not their problem after that.

The lots of questions are:

- The only 2 advantages of a new build is just cosmetic better looks and more energy efficient?

- Which decade had the best solidly built old builds?

- Which earliest decade had the best modern build that is insulated, energy efficient? Is it the 80s, 90s or which decade?

- Any home that doesn't have a chimney is classed as a modern build? 

- Who are the main Governing body that oversees new builds in the UK and if the new build company refuses to fix under warranty then what can be done?

- Is there search filter on Rightmove or Zoopla to search for homes built by a specific construction company/Housing Associations or list houses results depending on which decade they were built?

- All old builds don't have cavity walls? Which latest decade of built houses have no cavity walls? Will stripping and gutting out of the old build back to bare brick work, then after just putting insulated plasterboards on the bare brickwork give that similar insulation to a newer build that has cavity walls? Also old builds can be loft insulated making them energy efficient like new build roofs?

-  Are concrete wall old builds risk of moisture or damp? If so best to look for brick wall old builds?

- Are new build block of apartments are better built than new build semi/detached houses because quality standards and safety standards are more stringent for block of apartments?

- Can you get new builds without water meters?

- All new builds come with faster FTTP Broadband Internet connection?

- What's the max discount a buyer can get buying a new build off plan?

- Which decade was Asbestos removed from old builds?

- How to tell if a new build has a timber frame structure?

- How do you find new builds that is constructed from block & brick external walls and the internal partition walls are solid blocks too?

- Are block & beam floors in new build have a empty void underneath?

- Lastly what about 'luxury' new build homes that start off from half a million quid no matter of location, do they just use luxury fittings inside that looks nicer or the construction of these house match old builds?

I know lots of questions but with the answers hopefully it can be a valuable guide for home buyers that can make a decision for themselves. A home purchase is the most expensive thing anyone will buy hence lots of questions are required to be asked to be on the safe side otherwise risk losing hundreds of thousands of pounds.

I'm sure there's more questions asked when buying a used car 

FreeBear

There have always been cowboy builders and dodgy developers. Just because a house is old, doesn't mean it is constructed any better than a modern build.

I would also take issue with the notion that timber framed construction will not last. Take a walk through somewhere like Lavenham, and you'll find countless timber framed houses that has stood the test of time. OK, they generally used oak, but even modern softwood framing will last as long as it is kept dry.

917700

Firstly, the new build tend to use more cost efficiency materials, but they still meet the requirements.
Secondly, timber structure new build require a couple years to settle, some minor cracks and movements can happen. 

bery_451 said:

The lots of questions are:

- The only 2 advantages of a new build is just cosmetic better looks and more energy efficient?
A: Government schemes and no chain

- All old builds don't have cavity walls? Which latest decade of built houses have no cavity walls? Will stripping and gutting out of the old build back to bare brick work, then after just putting insulated plasterboards on the bare brickwork give that similar insulation to a newer build that has cavity walls? Also old builds can be loft insulated making them energy efficient like new build roofs?
A: Victorian terrace have cavity wall for the facade, but no insulation. Be careful when insulating old house, they are not cost effective, and it could cost more if wrong materials are used. If you are buying a leasehold flat, you may not be allowed to insulate without approval. 

-  Are concrete wall old builds risk of moisture or damp? If so best to look for brick wall old builds?
A: No difference, damp proof course do the job for all type. However, you may find difficult to get mortgage on concrete house. 

- What's the max discount a buyer can get buying a new build off plan?
A: Usually 5% incentives. Check with lender's criteria 

- How to tell if a new build has a timber frame structure?
A: Ask the sales. Most of houses are timber frame structure. 

- How do you find new builds that is constructed from block & brick external walls and the internal partition walls are solid blocks too?
A: Pointless question

- Are block & beam floors in new build have a empty void underneath?
A: Ground floor is usually solid concrete. Upper floors are plater boarded, but not suspend ceiling. 

Old house are cheaper, but you probably need to spend more on new bathroom, new kitchen, re wire, re roof. 

Nebulous2

What do you live in? Do you like it? 

I bought a new build,  timber-framed as most houses in Scotland are, 30 years ago. Maintenance was minimal. One boiler, occasional coat of paint on external woodwork, very frugal on heating. 

I bought a 250 year old house 2 years ago. We've had work done on the roof twice. Spent more on maintenance in 2 years than in 30 of the other house. It had substantial interior work in 63, 87 and now needs it again. 

I like them both. Largely because of where they are. The new build really suited us with a young family. Hopefully the old one will suit us in a new phase of our lives. 

RelievedSheff

We moved from a 1930's semi to a brand new build a couple of years ago. The new build is far better built than the 1930's house was. It feels a far more solidly built house. Ours is a traditional block and brick construction rather than the timber framed which is commonly used these days. The house is so much cheaper to run as well despite being larger and detached. The layout is also far better suited to modern living with very little wasted space.

Our garden is much smaller than the semi that we had but for us that is a good thing as neither of us is a avid gardner and we found the old place too much for us to handle. On the plus side though the plot that we now have has a very private and secure garden with no overlooking and we are about as detached as you can get on a new build estate with the nearest plots being 6m and 13m away.

We love this new build and have no plans to move on from it but if we did then we would certainly be looking at new builds again rather than older properties. We have done the older property bit and it wasn't for us. That said we know that not all enw builds are equal. We have perhaps been lucky with this one who knows.

Davesnave

If buying a new build, I would be inclined to look for sites from smaller developers than the big nationals. A close relative has spent the past 30 years as contracts manager for a number of building companies, but he will no longer consider working for the big nationals as the quality of finish and care he'd expect is no longer achievable nor demanded.

Older houses may or may not be well-built, but build quality isn't the only consideration. We bought a badly built 30s semi to get a 1/4 acre garden, not achievable otherwise. We stayed there 21 years and thoroughly enjoyed it, suffering no horrendous costs along the way.

Doozergirl

There's a lot of questions there.  Which ones did you actually want answering? 

This builder sounds a bit like an idiot.   There isn't a right answer.   There were always bad builders and there still are.  I'm sure if the Victorian developers had hollow core developer doors and upvc windows available to them, they'd have used them.   They didn't build with foundations and they were freezing, so that's a bit of an issue too!    The walls of a Victorian house, once you've stripped the plaster back is shocking.  They cut corners too, but also age causes things to degenerate, including the mortar that holds the thing together!  

Yes, developer houses are done cheaply and often thrown up because they are built for pure profit.   They definitely could be built with a bit more expense!  But, if they had upvc in Victorian times you think they wouldn't have used it?   They used what they had available, it just happens to be more expensive now. 

A well built new house is far better built than most old houses, but you're comparing apples with oranges, really, because they're built differently and you'd never go back to building the way that we did before.    New houses are warm and efficient, old houses were built with natural materials that are expensive these days and methods incompatible with being energy efficient.  

I've owned and lived in everything from a 17th century timber framed cottage, through Georgian, Victorian, 1930s, 1970s, 80s to the timber framed house that we've just built.    So that's what I think about timber frame!  It will last as long as it is cared for and maintained. 

Each was different, each had different qualities that I liked and lacked others.  Even the house that I designed can't be everything!   It can't have an open fire because it's airtight.  It has to be boxy to prevent thermal bridging.   I had to choose which was most important.   Many building methods are totally incompatible with each other.   

People choose what is important to them and I know that homeowners of all types of houses can be disappointed or delighted by elements once they get to know their houses.  

Your builder was just doing what some do best.  Moan.  I say that as a builder! 

Walrus123

I was convinced I'd never buy a new build house - small room proportions, shoddy build quality and the list of problems you read about are seemingly endless.

However, after about a year of trying to find the right non new-build-house, we found a new-build that was of interest.

It turns out that, just like all 'old' houses are not the same, neither are all new builds. The house we chose has very generously proportioned rooms (It is a 4 bed but 1600sqft), a generous sized double garage (150sqft!) into which you can quite easily fit two large cars - both things which are typically regarded as being not possible to achieve on a new build house. We're really happy with the house - it feels like its been nicely put together inside, some aspects are quite high quality and although we've had a minor snagging list to my amazement this has been dealt with promptly and at lightning speed by the site manager on the development we bought on. I was expecting a year of hassle and faff but so far, we've not had that.

I think new build houses generally get a lot of unfair press on the internet. You can tell if the rooms are useless and tiny by looking at the floor plan - then you can do something really revolutionary like, I dunno, not buy it.  

That said, it isn't perfect. Probably my two biggest bugbears are that the street scene is cluttered and I was surprised at just how little customisation is possible with our developer. We seem to go from one extreme to the other, the garage door is an ultra high quality Hormann product whereas the sinks in the bathroom are as cheap and basic as they come with no option to pay extra to upgrade it to something a bit nicer. 

There is also absolutely no question that they cost more than a non new-build house however there is a key consideration to bear in mind with that - ideally we wanted (and one day I still do) a late 80's to mid 90's build property as I love the way they look and like the way they are typically laid out on more spacious estates. But each one we viewed had been occupied for many years, often by the original owner, and the decor generally reflected that. In short, any of the older properties we viewed would also have required us to budget for a complete interior refresh, whereas of course the new build came with brand new everything - and I have to concede that my not particularly wonderful sink is still better than the luxury avacado bathroom suite fitted into many 20-30 year old executive homes.

So like with anything in life really, you have to judge each individual property on its merit. Some new builds are absolutely awful. But so are many non new builds!

I think it's less about who the developer is and more about the individual staff on site as to how nice your experience will be. This is tricky as it's difficult to know this before you commit and I am quite aware we got lucky in this respect.

davidmcn

Doozergirl said:

There were always bad builders and there still are.  I'm sure if the Victorian developers had hollow core developer doors and upvc windows available to them, they'd have used them.   They didn't build with foundations and they were freezing, so that's a bit of an issue too!    The walls of a Victorian house, once you've stripped the plaster back is shocking.  They cut corners too, but also age causes things to degenerate, including the mortar that holds the thing together!

Yes, I often think people who say Victorian building was better quality are kinda forgetting that we only see the examples which haven't fallen down or been replaced with something better.

[Deleted User]

I'd be inclined to agree that you'd get a better quality build and service from one of the smaller developers rather than the big nationals (Taylor Wimpey, Persimmon etc). 

I had friends who viewed a Taylor Wimpey new build, despite the fact a family member of theirs worked for Taylor Wimpey and could likely get them a great deal on the house, they didn't buy it due to the poor quality build. Even the show home had many visible snags. Instead they bought a house on a smaller development by a lesser known developer and their house is beautiful with no issues whatsoever. 

TheProfessional

People have their preferences.

Our preference was period. First house was a Victorian terrace which we loved. Walls not necessarily straight, cellar which wasn't watertight, creaky floors in places, old pipes and wiring which we had no idea what it did or where it went. It was beautiful.

Others don't want that sort of hassle. They like straight walls and everything new. They don't expect to have poor build quality. They don't expect to have the problems with new builds you talk about - theres a warranty innit!

Most new builds I see tend to look very small inside. I think the solo ones that go up are better than the estates but that's just my opinion

Also a lot of people use schemes to buy which are available only on new build

Good thing we all have different wants and needs otherwise everyone would be scrabbling for the same type of house