New Builds Vs Old Builds

lookstraightahead

It's not so much the actual house but where it's built. I would quite happily live in either as long as they area was right. I don't like big estates but similarly the older houses I can afford are either near a road or too rural for me. I am drawn subconsciously to old houses though as I think most are haunted (well the ones I've lived in anyway) and I like that - I like imagining who might have lived there before (ok haunted might be pushing it). 

RelievedSheff

lookstraightahead said:

It's not so much the actual house but where it's built. I would quite happily live in either as long as they area was right. I don't like big estates but similarly the older houses I can afford are either near a road or too rural for me. I am drawn subconsciously to old houses though as I think most are haunted (well the ones I've lived in anyway) and I like that - I like imagining who might have lived there before (ok haunted might be pushing it). 

Whilst we are the first people to live in our new build house we are far from the first people to have inhabited the site. The site was green field farmers fields prior to being developed for housing but an archaeological survey of the site found it had been the site of a Roman settlement. So there is still some history to be had even in new builds. We have some roman coins in the third bedroom as a hark back to the sites history. 

Granted you don't get the features or quirkiness with a new house, they are a bit fresh and out of the box, but that just means that you have to bring character in with the decor and furnishings that you choose to make it a comfortable home that reflects your personality. 

bery_451

FreeBear said:

There have always been cowboy builders and dodgy developers. Just because a house is old, doesn't mean it is constructed any better than a modern build.

I would also take issue with the notion that timber framed construction will not last. Take a walk through somewhere like Lavenham, and you'll find countless timber framed houses that has stood the test of time. OK, they generally used oak, but even modern softwood framing will last as long as it is kept dry.

Oak is good strong solid wood to be used for framed construction however are the property developers using it nowadays for new builds? If not do they use oak for the so called 'luxury' new builds?

Normal non-oak timber requires special coating on it called treatment or varnish whatever you wanna call it to stop the timber rotting from humidity/moisture. Are the property developers treating their timber for new builds? If not it be very concerning as we live in a climate where we have freezing winters and warm summers and these volatile weather cycles throughout the year can affect soft wood like timber. Imagine having termites in a timber framed new build 

bery_451

917700 said:

Firstly, the new build tend to use more cost efficiency materials, but they still meet the requirements.
Secondly, timber structure new build require a couple years to settle, some minor cracks and movements can happen. 

bery_451 said:

The lots of questions are:

- The only 2 advantages of a new build is just cosmetic better looks and more energy efficient?
A: Government schemes and no chain

- All old builds don't have cavity walls? Which latest decade of built houses have no cavity walls? Will stripping and gutting out of the old build back to bare brick work, then after just putting insulated plasterboards on the bare brickwork give that similar insulation to a newer build that has cavity walls? Also old builds can be loft insulated making them energy efficient like new build roofs?
A: Victorian terrace have cavity wall for the facade, but no insulation. Be careful when insulating old house, they are not cost effective, and it could cost more if wrong materials are used. If you are buying a leasehold flat, you may not be allowed to insulate without approval. 

-  Are concrete wall old builds risk of moisture or damp? If so best to look for brick wall old builds?
A: No difference, damp proof course do the job for all type. However, you may find difficult to get mortgage on concrete house. 

- What's the max discount a buyer can get buying a new build off plan?
A: Usually 5% incentives. Check with lender's criteria 

- How to tell if a new build has a timber frame structure?
A: Ask the sales. Most of houses are timber frame structure. 

- How do you find new builds that is constructed from block & brick external walls and the internal partition walls are solid blocks too?
A: Pointless question

- Are block & beam floors in new build have a empty void underneath?
A: Ground floor is usually solid concrete. Upper floors are plater boarded, but not suspend ceiling. 

Old house are cheaper, but you probably need to spend more on new bathroom, new kitchen, re wire, re roof. 

Requirements set by who is the main question? In Germany they have more stricter quality controls and stricter building regulations over there for new builds hence new builds in Germany are far superior and safer to new builds in UK.

Grenfell Tower is a extreme case example of what can go wrong with modern safety regs. Where they made a old build unsafe by applying new build requirements and regs to it. And if there's a lot of contractors along the new build chain and a lot of governing bodies too then who takes the liability where they all start pointing fingers at each other if anything wrong happens? 

If a home buyer is buying a new build then what is your advice to him/her to avoid problems with it?

bery_451

Nebulous2 said:

What do you live in? Do you like it? 

I bought a new build,  timber-framed as most houses in Scotland are, 30 years ago. Maintenance was minimal. One boiler, occasional coat of paint on external woodwork, very frugal on heating. 

I bought a 250 year old house 2 years ago. We've had work done on the roof twice. Spent more on maintenance in 2 years than in 30 of the other house. It had substantial interior work in 63, 87 and now needs it again. 

I like them both. Largely because of where they are. The new build really suited us with a young family. Hopefully the old one will suit us in a new phase of our lives. 

Some people know the freemasons were the best builders in the world that built the best beautiful buildings and when they moved to Scotland centuries ago from France they built excellent buildings is Scotland. The word mason means builder I believe.

Surprised to hear that most houses in Scotland are timber framed, you saying most of the property development took place in Scotland from the 90s modern?

bery_451

RelievedSheff said:

We moved from a 1930's semi to a brand new build a couple of years ago. The new build is far better built than the 1930's house was. It feels a far more solidly built house. Ours is a traditional block and brick construction rather than the timber framed which is commonly used these days. The house is so much cheaper to run as well despite being larger and detached. The layout is also far better suited to modern living with very little wasted space.

Our garden is much smaller than the semi that we had but for us that is a good thing as neither of us is a avid gardner and we found the old place too much for us to handle. On the plus side though the plot that we now have has a very private and secure garden with no overlooking and we are about as detached as you can get on a new build estate with the nearest plots being 6m and 13m away.

We love this new build and have no plans to move on from it but if we did then we would certainly be looking at new builds again rather than older properties. We have done the older property bit and it wasn't for us. That said we know that not all enw builds are equal. We have perhaps been lucky with this one who knows.

Great to hear it worked out for you. What is your advice for new build buyers so they can get new build like yours instead of a timber framed new build? Are timber framed new builds cheaper than a solid new build and how does the buyer know whether the new build is timber framed or solid?

bery_451

Davesnave said:

If buying a new build, I would be inclined to look for sites from smaller developers than the big nationals. A close relative has spent the past 30 years as contracts manager for a number of building companies, but he will no longer consider working for the big nationals as the quality of finish and care he'd expect is no longer achievable nor demanded.

Older houses may or may not be well-built, but build quality isn't the only consideration. We bought a badly built 30s semi to get a 1/4 acre garden, not achievable otherwise. We stayed there 21 years and thoroughly enjoyed it, suffering no horrendous costs along the way.

Okay which smaller developers have good customer reviews or how does a home buyer search for these smaller developer new builds on right move or zoopla? 

I assume the big nationals like Barratt Homes are PLC, publicly owned companies where they have to keep their investors happy meaning more profit for them by cutting corners in build quality and using cheaper materials?

The smaller ltd developers you mean?

Aren't these property developers  whether big nationals or small get any subsidised money funds from the Government to help build more homes the government claims and if that's the case then why the build quality is so bad of these new builds?

Davesnave

bery_451 said:

FreeBear said:

There have always been cowboy builders and dodgy developers. Just because a house is old, doesn't mean it is constructed any better than a modern build.

I would also take issue with the notion that timber framed construction will not last. Take a walk through somewhere like Lavenham, and you'll find countless timber framed houses that has stood the test of time. OK, they generally used oak, but even modern softwood framing will last as long as it is kept dry.

Oak is good strong solid wood to be used for framed construction however are the property developers using it nowadays for new builds? If not do they use oak for the so called 'luxury' new builds?

Normal non-oak timber requires special coating on it called treatment or varnish whatever you wanna call it to stop the timber rotting from humidity/moisture. Are the property developers treating their timber for new builds? If not it be very concerning as we live in a climate where we have freezing winters and warm summers and these volatile weather cycles throughout the year can affect soft wood like timber. Imagine having termites in a timber framed new build 

I think this post demonstrates the dangers of having a little knowledge and trying to extrapolate from that without doing more detailed research.

No, builders don't usually use oak to make timber framing, nor is it 'coated;' it's pressure-treated to stop rot and insect attack. Also, a timber framed house in this country usually has a brick or similar skin, so the frame is not exposed to weather. Termites have only ever existed in this country in a small coastal area of North Devon.

As for climatic variations and harsh weather, ask yourself what houses are often made from in somewhere with those and a higher per capita income than the UK, like Norway or Finland!

OldMusicGuy

bery_451 said:

Great to hear it worked out for you. What is your advice for new build buyers so they can get new build like yours instead of a timber framed new build? Are timber framed new builds cheaper than a solid new build and how does the buyer know whether the new build is timber framed or solid?

I have renovated two Victorian terraced properties and also owned a Grade II listed building, as well as more recently owning a new build. We have just downsized in retirement and moved into a new build, despite saying we wanted an older character property. Why? The quality is of this new build is superb. The property is brilliantly designed and the use of space is very clever. It uses high quality materials throughout and will be (pretty much) maintenance free. We are so pleased we bought it compared to the ongoing issues that I know any older property will have. It is traditional block construction, well  insulated and well soundproofed. We also nearly bought a timber-framed new build before this one.

So here's the guidance I would give anyone:

• Look at the developer. The big national ones tend to have the worst reputation, mid-sized/small local ones can be better. Look at their websites, read reviews online and look at their properties and developments. Do they look crammed in? Are they the kind of place you would want to live? Our developer is Backhouse Housing, and they are very different to the likes of Bovis et al.
• Ask about the construction before you reserve. Also, ask for construction specs in terms of things like insulation. We got plans that showed how the house was being constructed - we bought a semi so the sound insulation between the houses was important and I could see this was high spec sound insulation (and we cannot hear anything from our neighbours).
• Don't rule out timber framed. Good quality timber framed are actually greener than block/brick. They can be a bit cheaper because there is less labour in constructing them.  
• Make sure you find out about estate service charges and management before you reserve. For example. will the roads be adopted by the LA, how will the management of the common areas be administered?   

917700

bery_451 said:

917700 said:

Firstly, the new build tend to use more cost efficiency materials, but they still meet the requirements.
Secondly, timber structure new build require a couple years to settle, some minor cracks and movements can happen. 

bery_451 said:

The lots of questions are:

- The only 2 advantages of a new build is just cosmetic better looks and more energy efficient?
A: Government schemes and no chain

- All old builds don't have cavity walls? Which latest decade of built houses have no cavity walls? Will stripping and gutting out of the old build back to bare brick work, then after just putting insulated plasterboards on the bare brickwork give that similar insulation to a newer build that has cavity walls? Also old builds can be loft insulated making them energy efficient like new build roofs?
A: Victorian terrace have cavity wall for the facade, but no insulation. Be careful when insulating old house, they are not cost effective, and it could cost more if wrong materials are used. If you are buying a leasehold flat, you may not be allowed to insulate without approval. 

-  Are concrete wall old builds risk of moisture or damp? If so best to look for brick wall old builds?
A: No difference, damp proof course do the job for all type. However, you may find difficult to get mortgage on concrete house. 

- What's the max discount a buyer can get buying a new build off plan?
A: Usually 5% incentives. Check with lender's criteria 

- How to tell if a new build has a timber frame structure?
A: Ask the sales. Most of houses are timber frame structure. 

- How do you find new builds that is constructed from block & brick external walls and the internal partition walls are solid blocks too?
A: Pointless question

- Are block & beam floors in new build have a empty void underneath?
A: Ground floor is usually solid concrete. Upper floors are plater boarded, but not suspend ceiling. 

Old house are cheaper, but you probably need to spend more on new bathroom, new kitchen, re wire, re roof. 

Requirements set by who is the main question? In Germany they have more stricter quality controls and stricter building regulations over there for new builds hence new builds in Germany are far superior and safer to new builds in UK.

Grenfell Tower is a extreme case example of what can go wrong with modern safety regs. Where they made a old build unsafe by applying new build requirements and regs to it. And if there's a lot of contractors along the new build chain and a lot of governing bodies too then who takes the liability where they all start pointing fingers at each other if anything wrong happens? 

If a home buyer is buying a new build then what is your advice to him/her to avoid problems with it?

Are you discussing about house or flats? There are very different 

Regardless of new or old, I will avoid any property with leasehold and service charge.