Ticket because my permit fell down

crb88

I've looked at the NEWBIES thread and couldn't find circumstances that come close to mine so thought I'd throw up a thread. It's quite far along so bare with me.

1) 13th January 2020 I parked in a car park at the place I work (A university). I have a Car parking permit for car park (which charges £10 all day for non-permit holders). As I close my car door, the permit gets blows off my dashboard. When I finish my days work I come back to find a PCN. I go home and immediately inform them that I have a parking permit, give them my permit number and tell them I won't be paying the PCN.

2) As with previous tickets I've had from other places, I ignored the correspondence they followed up with as they wildly inflated and deflated the price they wished me to pay. Eventually I began getting correspondence from the notorious BW legal. This was not a step I'd ever had regarding a PCN before. I continued to ignore them until paperwork from the Country Court arrived. 

3) Naively I wrote down my story, that I had a parking permit for the car park on the form from the court and also added that what they were asking for money was was a breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) and referenced specific clauses, then sent off the form in the post.

4) Just before Christmas 2020 I got a letter from BW Legal telling me they received notification from the court of my defense and that they will be proceeding with court action  because they believe the court will find in their favour, unless I pay the amount requested by the 5th January.

5) Today, 4th January I called BW legal and basically stalled them by saying they need to check with correspondence their client has sent as they requested different amounts to what they are asking for. They said they would check back their client and extend the deadline (I got this in a written E-mail from them). 

SO NOW WHAT?

Have I messed up to the point I need to pay? They are asking for £210 for a car park that charges £10 all day and I had a permit for! A permit I genuinely believed I was displaying properly. I can't afford to pay exorbitant legal costs that I would incur from losing, so I really don't know what to do here. 

Please advise as soon and as detailed as possible. Thank you all!

KeithP

Please show us exactly, word for word, what you have filed as a Defence.

Your phone call today to the Claimant's representative will have not delayed things at all.

Why do you think you might be liable for 'exorbitant legal costs'? 
Have you read the NEWBIES thread yet?

crb88

Unfortunately I wrote my defence on the paper provided and sent it off by post so I cannot tell you word for word.

I began with something along the lines of:

"I had the permission by ways of permit to park in the space provided for which I have been ticketed, however unknown to me at the time, my permit had been dislodged from the dashboard as I closed the door. I contacted the client/parking company on the day the ticket was issued and gave them my permit number. They said they still wanted the PCN to be paid. In addition to this, the car park in question charges £10 for an al day rate so the costs they are asking me for of £135 are against Schedule 2 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999."

Pretty sure I sighted 1.e of that schedule specifically as well.

I know small claims court can't  normally make you pay fees , but the letter from BW legal claimed they could recover additional fees on top of the £210 they are asking for, and I have no idea what normal is or what I'm liable to pay on top of the £210 (including the £25 court fees). 

I read the NEWBIES thread, but it's difficult to understand what applies to this specific case and what doesn't, given I've deviated a bit from recommended advice etc.

Umkomaas

I can't afford to pay exorbitant legal costs that I would incur from losing, so I really don't know what to do here. 

Which are what, then?

COSTS OF LOSING IN COURT

Typically broken down as :-
£100 - original parking charge
£25 - court filing fee
£50 - solicitor costs for preparing case papers (maximum, capped)
£25 - hearing fee, if it gets that far
Maybe £7 or £8 interest, depends how long it's been since the original charge.

So not much more than £200 - IF YOU LOSE!

Anything else they try to add will be spurious and must be challenged with the Judge.

Your Witness Statement will be even more important than most cases, given your Defence, particularly relying on legislation (UTCCR) that was superseded years ago. 

Ralph-y

What did the Uni say when you complained?

some reading for you ...

direct link to court section in newbies thread
.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64350585/#Comment_64350585

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6108153/suggested-template-defence-to-adapt-for-all-parking-charge-cases-where-they-add-false-admin-costs#latest

Ralph

crb88

So the best course of action is to request all the information they have on me SAR, then take it to court and plead that I had a permit for the space that I thought was displayed correctly and that will be a suitable defence?

Redx

if they claimed £210 , then that is the amount to be paid within one month if you lose, or possibly less, depending what the judge says, it wont be more than what is on the claim form

look up de minimis

the permission by the landowner was granted with the permit and payment

you were not a fly parker , you were there on legitimate business

they claimant should have waived the pcn when proof of patronage and permit was supplied on appeal

etc

your defence has already been filed and so you cannot change it , you could ask the CCBC for a copy in an email though

a SAR to the PPC should obtain all your data

this needs rescuing at the WS + EXHIBITS + SUMMARY COSTS ASSESSMENT stage

which parking company ?

Coupon-mad

You have already thrown the baby out with the bathwater and your defence is what you put on the claim form response.

You are stuck with that.  You can improve on it and provide evidence/photos, etc. at witness statement and evidence stage, as explained in the NEWBIES thread.  There is no risk of a CCJ or huge costs even of you lose because we know what we are doing and we don't put people in that position.

Of course you need a SAR.  The NEWBIES thread tells you this as the first step so start playing catch up and email the PPC for a SAR (no, not BWL).

Promise us you will STOP PHONING BW LEGAL and don't talk to them when they ring you because they think you are a mug, due to citing the UTCCRs that were replaced in 2015 and which the Beavis case (Supreme Court level) Judges said were not breached by parking charges.

Which PPC is this claim from?  The Claimant is not BWL.

nosferatu1001

Have you read the newbies thread? YOu dont just "take those pictures to court" or whatever you get from a SAR; you will have filed a witness statement AND exhibits with the court and claimant well before then. 
Have you filled out the DQ yet?
ANd yes, you cited regulations that havent existed for 5 years now. That isnt naive. That is poor preparation. 

crb88

Total Parking Solutions is the company.
I filled in the form from the court, disagreeing with the claim they filed and wrote my defence as above (having a permit).
I am contacting Total Parking Solutions for the SAR today to collect all my data and correspondence.
I will no longer have any contact with BW Legal, thank you.

(My last experience of this was from about 2010 so was running off of old advice sadly, thank you for your help so far everyone)

nosferatu1001

NO, you've been directed to the newbies thread, so go there *now* and start reading up from the stage youre at
You can potentially rescue your not-a-defence defence with decent WS, and because you didnt keep a copy (seriously, legal matter and you dont keep a copy?!? A little foolish! ) you can ring the CCBC and ASK THEM to give youa copy of your defence. You really need sight of it.