Covid is causing a strain on my relationship with my brother

unholyangel

lisyloo said:

unholyangel said:

lisyloo said:

unholyangel said:

While I'm mindful of the health implications of covid....I think you're being a bit cheeky with regards to your mum. 

You think she's taking his side but surely if she was, she'd be forcing you to go out and mingle. It sounds like your mum's trying to keep everyone happy, by allowing them to do their own thing. Only you're not happy because you don't want them to do their own thing, you want them to do your thing. 

You can't have everything your own way when other people are involved. You can choose for yourself, but not others. 

I do understand where you're coming from but perhaps I'm feeling sympathy for your mum. I also had two conflicting attitudes to deal with from family members and had no control over either one. 

Hang on a cotton picking minute.
arent we taking about the law? Not personal preferences?

Is there a law that gives enforcement obligations to the mother? Or that makes her responsible for the actions of her son? Would you expect her to force her son to wear a seatbelt when driving, not to speed, not shoplift etc.....or would you say that's his responsibility, to ensure he acts within the law?

I'm not saying the OP is being hard on the brother, just the mum. 

Legally no.
Morally I’d say she (the mother) has blood on her hands.
i would expect a mother to be very unhappy to have a criminal son and in many cases not to allow them to live in the same house let alone shower them with affection and approval.
I’d certainly expect any caring mother to be concerned about a son not wearing a seatbelt for his own safety.
of course it’s his responsibility, but she is colluding with criminal behaviour.

I’d be hard on a mother that was both colluding with criminal behaviour (by opening allowing it and showing approval of his choices) but also one with blood on her hands.

So not a question of law and instead one of personal preference then?

Yes I'd expect a mother to care and hopefully try and intervene. But I also recognise that if your adult child doesn't listen, there's not a lot you can do. Sure she could kick him out, but how many parents do you know would kick their child out for a misdemeanor? She could equally kick out the OP, but doesn't seem to have done that either which suggests she is not all one sided like the OP thinks. What about teenagers and children? Should we kick them out too? Sure it might not (depending on circumstances) be against the law for them to mingle, but aren't they still causing the same risk that results in the mother having "blood on her hands" in this scenario?

As for mother's not being happy having a criminal for a son, I'm not so sure. Most people have committed a criminal offence yet most mother's seem happy with their children. There's a lot of offences that someone could commit that would, by definition, make them a criminal even though they generally wouldn't be perceived as one or even as a "bad" person.

Again, not excusing the brother in the slightest. I've said before that people not keeping to the rules is a big part of the reason we're still in this mess nearly a year on and you need to consider the potential impact on others rather than just yourself. 

But I also I recognise it's the brother's responsibility, not the mother's and that people would probably take the rules more seriously if there was any reason or rhyme to them. 

Thrugelmir

Actions speak louder than words. Move out.  You can do your own bit even if others don't care less. 

Barny1979

As others said, the only thing you can control is moving out.

unholyangel

bebex said:

unholyangel said:

lisyloo said:

unholyangel said:

While I'm mindful of the health implications of covid....I think you're being a bit cheeky with regards to your mum. 

You think she's taking his side but surely if she was, she'd be forcing you to go out and mingle. It sounds like your mum's trying to keep everyone happy, by allowing them to do their own thing. Only you're not happy because you don't want them to do their own thing, you want them to do your thing. 

You can't have everything your own way when other people are involved. You can choose for yourself, but not others. 

I do understand where you're coming from but perhaps I'm feeling sympathy for your mum. I also had two conflicting attitudes to deal with from family members and had no control over either one. 

Hang on a cotton picking minute.
arent we taking about the law? Not personal preferences?

Is there a law that gives enforcement obligations to the mother? Or that makes her responsible for the actions of her son? Would you expect her to force her son to wear a seatbelt when driving, not to speed, not shoplift etc.....or would you say that's his responsibility, to ensure he acts within the law?

I'm not saying the OP is being hard on the brother, just the mum. 

I do personally feel like my mum should stay impartial. My brother could murder someone and in my mums eyes he wouldn’t have done anything wrong. This a on going issue where she supports his wrong doings. Another example would him achieving 2 GSCES because again he was to busy partying and now is struggling to find a new apprenticeship. 

I get that it's frustrating, I really do. I was able to influence both parties in my case, so we could come to an agreement we could all live with. But it was more concessions to appease than anyone actually being happy with it. 

I was lucky though, that they both valued what I had to say and it made them rethink their own perspective. I am a skilled negotiator, but I know there is always an element of luck. If one party is completely unwilling to compromise, it's impossible to come to an agreement unless the other person rolls over and accepts it as is. 

bebex

unholyangel said:

lisyloo said:

unholyangel said:

lisyloo said:

unholyangel said:

While I'm mindful of the health implications of covid....I think you're being a bit cheeky with regards to your mum. 

You think she's taking his side but surely if she was, she'd be forcing you to go out and mingle. It sounds like your mum's trying to keep everyone happy, by allowing them to do their own thing. Only you're not happy because you don't want them to do their own thing, you want them to do your thing. 

You can't have everything your own way when other people are involved. You can choose for yourself, but not others. 

I do understand where you're coming from but perhaps I'm feeling sympathy for your mum. I also had two conflicting attitudes to deal with from family members and had no control over either one. 

Hang on a cotton picking minute.
arent we taking about the law? Not personal preferences?

Is there a law that gives enforcement obligations to the mother? Or that makes her responsible for the actions of her son? Would you expect her to force her son to wear a seatbelt when driving, not to speed, not shoplift etc.....or would you say that's his responsibility, to ensure he acts within the law?

I'm not saying the OP is being hard on the brother, just the mum. 

Legally no.
Morally I’d say she (the mother) has blood on her hands.
i would expect a mother to be very unhappy to have a criminal son and in many cases not to allow them to live in the same house let alone shower them with affection and approval.
I’d certainly expect any caring mother to be concerned about a son not wearing a seatbelt for his own safety.
of course it’s his responsibility, but she is colluding with criminal behaviour.

I’d be hard on a mother that was both colluding with criminal behaviour (by opening allowing it and showing approval of his choices) but also one with blood on her hands.

So not a question of law and instead one of personal preference then?

Yes I'd expect a mother to care and hopefully try and intervene. But I also recognise that if your adult child doesn't listen, there's not a lot you can do. Sure she could kick him out, but how many parents do you know would kick their child out for a misdemeanor? She could equally kick out the OP, but doesn't seem to have done that either which suggests she is not all one sided like the OP thinks. What about teenagers and children? Should we kick them out too? Sure it might not (depending on circumstances) be against the law for them to mingle, but aren't they still causing the same risk that results in the mother having "blood on her hands" in this scenario?

As for mother's not being happy having a criminal for a son, I'm not so sure. Most people have committed a criminal offence yet most mother's seem happy with their children. There's a lot of offences that someone could commit that would, by definition, make them a criminal even though they generally wouldn't be perceived as one or even as a "bad" person.

Again, not excusing the brother in the slightest. I've said before that people not keeping to the rules is a big part of the reason we're still in this mess nearly a year on and you need to consider the potential impact on others rather than just yourself. 

But I also I recognise it's the brother's responsibility, not the mother's and that people would probably take the rules more seriously if there was any reason or rhyme to them. 

I pay my mum financial support in the form of £650 which a lot considering that is just for my bedroom in lancashire. Kicking me out would put herself in financial hardship but already decided moving out would be the only way to resolve and cheaper for me in the long run. 

bebex

unholyangel said:

bebex said:

unholyangel said:

lisyloo said:

unholyangel said:

While I'm mindful of the health implications of covid....I think you're being a bit cheeky with regards to your mum. 

You think she's taking his side but surely if she was, she'd be forcing you to go out and mingle. It sounds like your mum's trying to keep everyone happy, by allowing them to do their own thing. Only you're not happy because you don't want them to do their own thing, you want them to do your thing. 

You can't have everything your own way when other people are involved. You can choose for yourself, but not others. 

I do understand where you're coming from but perhaps I'm feeling sympathy for your mum. I also had two conflicting attitudes to deal with from family members and had no control over either one. 

Hang on a cotton picking minute.
arent we taking about the law? Not personal preferences?

Is there a law that gives enforcement obligations to the mother? Or that makes her responsible for the actions of her son? Would you expect her to force her son to wear a seatbelt when driving, not to speed, not shoplift etc.....or would you say that's his responsibility, to ensure he acts within the law?

I'm not saying the OP is being hard on the brother, just the mum. 

I do personally feel like my mum should stay impartial. My brother could murder someone and in my mums eyes he wouldn’t have done anything wrong. This a on going issue where she supports his wrong doings. Another example would him achieving 2 GSCES because again he was to busy partying and now is struggling to find a new apprenticeship. 

I get that it's frustrating, I really do. I was able to influence both parties in my case, so we could come to an agreement we could all live with. But it was more concessions to appease than anyone actually being happy with it. 

I was lucky though, that they both valued what I had to say and it made them rethink their own perspective. I am a skilled negotiator, but I know there is always an element of luck. If one party is completely unwilling to compromise, it's impossible to come to an agreement unless the other person rolls over and accepts it as is. 

My mum and dad have both agreed with me over this situation and then when it came to me and him having an argument about it she’s now decided to tell him he can do what he wants and I’m messing in his life.

finalfantasist

bebex said:

unholyangel said:

lisyloo said:

unholyangel said:

lisyloo said:

unholyangel said:

While I'm mindful of the health implications of covid....I think you're being a bit cheeky with regards to your mum. 

You think she's taking his side but surely if she was, she'd be forcing you to go out and mingle. It sounds like your mum's trying to keep everyone happy, by allowing them to do their own thing. Only you're not happy because you don't want them to do their own thing, you want them to do your thing. 

You can't have everything your own way when other people are involved. You can choose for yourself, but not others. 

I do understand where you're coming from but perhaps I'm feeling sympathy for your mum. I also had two conflicting attitudes to deal with from family members and had no control over either one. 

Hang on a cotton picking minute.
arent we taking about the law? Not personal preferences?

Is there a law that gives enforcement obligations to the mother? Or that makes her responsible for the actions of her son? Would you expect her to force her son to wear a seatbelt when driving, not to speed, not shoplift etc.....or would you say that's his responsibility, to ensure he acts within the law?

I'm not saying the OP is being hard on the brother, just the mum. 

Legally no.
Morally I’d say she (the mother) has blood on her hands.
i would expect a mother to be very unhappy to have a criminal son and in many cases not to allow them to live in the same house let alone shower them with affection and approval.
I’d certainly expect any caring mother to be concerned about a son not wearing a seatbelt for his own safety.
of course it’s his responsibility, but she is colluding with criminal behaviour.

I’d be hard on a mother that was both colluding with criminal behaviour (by opening allowing it and showing approval of his choices) but also one with blood on her hands.

So not a question of law and instead one of personal preference then?

Yes I'd expect a mother to care and hopefully try and intervene. But I also recognise that if your adult child doesn't listen, there's not a lot you can do. Sure she could kick him out, but how many parents do you know would kick their child out for a misdemeanor? She could equally kick out the OP, but doesn't seem to have done that either which suggests she is not all one sided like the OP thinks. What about teenagers and children? Should we kick them out too? Sure it might not (depending on circumstances) be against the law for them to mingle, but aren't they still causing the same risk that results in the mother having "blood on her hands" in this scenario?

As for mother's not being happy having a criminal for a son, I'm not so sure. Most people have committed a criminal offence yet most mother's seem happy with their children. There's a lot of offences that someone could commit that would, by definition, make them a criminal even though they generally wouldn't be perceived as one or even as a "bad" person.

Again, not excusing the brother in the slightest. I've said before that people not keeping to the rules is a big part of the reason we're still in this mess nearly a year on and you need to consider the potential impact on others rather than just yourself. 

But I also I recognise it's the brother's responsibility, not the mother's and that people would probably take the rules more seriously if there was any reason or rhyme to them. 

I pay my mum financial support in the form of £650

Some people would call it something else. Rent seems like a good word for it.

MalMonroe

 You say "I pay my mum financial support in the form of £650 which a lot considering that is just for my bedroom in lancashire. Kicking me out would put herself in financial hardship but already decided moving out would be the only way to resolve and cheaper for me in the long run."

Your whole family now consists of adults. Nobody can tell anyone else what to do. If you don't like what's going on in the home then you have to look after your own mental health and get out. Your mum managed financially before you moved in and she'll manage when you move out. 

There's no sense in being a martyr when it's totally unnecessary - nobody's thanking you for it. If you live separately you'll probably immediately get on better with all your family members. £650 a month for a room in Lancashire???!! What an absolute rip off. That's double what I pay for a whole two bedroomed flat in an urban idyll in Yorkshire. 

Get out, and stay out. They can then make a mess of their lives and you can do what you need to do. Sometimes families have to separate in order to remain friends. There's no disgrace in it. You're never ever going to get them to come around to your point of view, so why keep banging your head against the wall? That way crazy lies.

Dr_Crypto

If you’re that bothered move out. That seems an awful lot to be paying your Mum even including bills. Regardless of the money side you can’t seek to control other people. 

enthusiasticsaver

I would say move out too.  If it puts your mum in financial hardship that is her fault.  Your brother is not following the rules as set out by law and could be fined and should be. None of us like this situation but understand why we are having to deal with these restrictions and I think your brother and people like him are selfish.  Not seeing family and friends is causing some peoples mental health to suffer but I do not believe this is the case with your brother.  He either does not want to be told what to do and will just do his own thing or he does not care about anything other than his own needs and wants.  Either way I would not be putting up with it and just find yourself somewhere else to live.  Where were you living before? £650 will presumably cover rent on somewhere else you can live?