How much to live on

helensbiggestfan

Of course there is a lot in a name, which is why I used the rose quote.  A rose is a flower as is a dandelion but most people will see the rose as more attractive and more valuable.  

My point was and is this, If a student loan is not a "real" loan in terms of structure and conditions, then why call it a loan.  It just muddies the water and confuses people. I guess "graduate tax" maybe sounds a bit clunky and it is perhaps assumed that some people wouldn't understand it. Whereas the term loan is easily understood . I dont know. 🤷‍♀️. Lol 

For the sake of clarity then perhaps the term Student Loan should be changed.  A lot of people are very put off by the term loan, seeing it as a millstone round their necks. I can remember a time when mortgages were often seen in the same light, especially by the working class......for want of a better expression.  

As an aside - my parents were appalled when I first took out a mortgage. Mainly through fear I think.  I was the first in our family to become a homeowner and they were nervous for me.  The phrase "biting off more than you can chew" was bandied about.  Once they saw it working for me, they then took out a mortgage themselves and bought their first property.  They were in the early 50s by then. I proved to them that it could be done - "people like us" could own their own home. 

I think that's how many people feel about student loans. Whilst there are many people who are perfectly happy with the word loan, seeing a student loan as a solid investment in their future,  it still scares the bejesus out of some people.  Especially as the figures can be eye watering. Six figure loans are not uncommon, especially when you add in a Masters or PhD.  Tbh I'm not sure that the term "graduate tax" would appeal much either.  Lol   Many people might find it hard to put a positive spin on paying what they might see as an extra tax burden. 

I appreciate we are never going to go back to free tertiary education, those days are gone.  What is needed is a rethink about how education is funded.  

I don't know.......Maybe something along the lines of say.....if you train in medicine your tuition is free but you must commit to working  for the NHS a for a certain length of time after graduation. I know Boots used to have a scheme like this as did some engineering firms.  

Just an idea......

Interesting talk.😁.  Time for coffee and then tackle the weeds. 

Pat38493

"If a student loan is not a "real" loan in terms of structure and conditions, then why call it a loan"

If you believe what Martin Lewis says, it's because the government at the time did not want it to be called a tax for for obvious reasons.  Also - I guess it evolved from the earlier system of small student loans to top up living costs that would have usually been paid off within the person's working life.

They still could have called it a "Graduate Contribution" or suchlike though.  The point is though that one should be careful about treating is as a debt just like any other loan, mortgage or suchlike as there are fundamental differences, which is why Martin Lewis had a long debate with a parent on his podcast the other day trying to convince him that his son should take the student loan and the father should not pay him the money instead.  Even someone who qualifies as a doctor might go off and work for MSF and never earn enough to pay back the loan.

helensbiggestfan

Thanks. I'll look out for that podcast.  See if I can get my head round it all.  

Yes I can well believe the govt of the day were wary of calling it a tax.  

Thankfully my boys are done with all that now, although no 2 is still paying back.  And then it will be the grandchildren next.....lol. 

I dare say things will change again before then.  

tooldle

As Wales has been mentioned, I thought it worth mentioning that here (Wales) we still have maintenance grants. It doesn’t cover the full loan and, for those on the lowest of incomes contributes £8.1K per annum at todays rates. Those on the highest income receive a contribution of £1K. 
https://www.gov.wales/student-finance/full-time-undergraduates

Smudgeismydog

Thanks @toodle, she does qualify for a maintenance grant, and it is another area where the Welsh system appears to be more generous than the English system.

louby40

Neither of my sons have been to university ( I'm so glad) they both got apprenticeships and now have great jobs. One works for Ford and the other for one of the large water companies. Both doing really well and enjoying their jobs.

If they had gone to uni I doubt I'd have retired when I did. 

Smudgeismydog

My son has just started his second year of his degree apprenticeship. This is definitely the right route for him, and he is thriving. 

Albermarle

By coincidence, it was one of the topics on the Martin Lewis money show, on ITV1 at 20.00 yesterday evening, in case anybody wants to watch it on Catchup/ ITV X.
It may have been a repeat; not sure as I am not a regular watcher.

louby40

No its a new series.

LL_USS

I would love to think that my son would be among the high flyers in the city. We don't know about the future though - more certain he and/ or his younger sister will need somewhere to live and look for jobs. So my son has taken out maximum maintenance loan together with tuition loan (for the second year now) - I keep the money that I would have to use to pay for him without any loans, and wait till I know where they can buy so I can help.