How much to live on

Albermarle

helensbiggestfan said:

Albermarle said:

helensbiggestfan said:

Definitely.  Free tertiary education was a huge leg up for the working class.  Now student debt is a huge burden. I wonder how many are scared off by the prospect. 

I was talking to my son yesterday.  His girlfriend was saying how lucky she was in being one of the last not to have to pay tuition fees and benefitting from a bursary for her nursing degree.  She managed to get qualified without incurring any debt, although she did work part time whilst studying, so that probably helped.  

My son is still paying off his student loan but again he is more fortunate than some because my husband and I did manage to help out.  His debt is comparatively low but even so his repayments are £250 a month, so not an insignificant amount.  Thankfully he only has a couple of years left.  He has already said that because he is used to managing without that money when the debt is cleared he will channel it into his pension and his investments.  

 This from the once debt ridden spendthrift, who is now a reformed character and is quietly stashing away for the future.  😁

Just to be a bit pedantic and to quote Martin Lewis.
The student loan is not really a debt, but a tax for graduate employees earning over a certain amount .
A majority never have to pay all of it back ( and many pay nothing back).
Still it was a lot better when it was totally free !

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
Would by any other name still smell as sweet .....

Student loan/graduate tax.  Makes no odds really.   It all comes out in the wash. 

If the powers that be want people to see it as a graduate tax then they should sell it as such.  If it is marketed as a student loan, then that's how people will see it. 

Perfect autumn day here.  

If it was a real loan, then you would have to keep paying g it off whether you could afford to or not . You could even be made bankrupt/ get a CCJ if you could not repay it.Also it would be taken into account if you wanted another loan, like a Mortgage.
None of these things apply with a Student’loan’
So quite a lot in a name in this case 🙂

helensbiggestfan

Of course there is a lot in a name, which is why I used the rose quote.  A rose is a flower as is a dandelion but most people will see the rose as more attractive and more valuable.  

My point was and is this, If a student loan is not a "real" loan in terms of structure and conditions, then why call it a loan.  It just muddies the water and confuses people. I guess "graduate tax" maybe sounds a bit clunky and it is perhaps assumed that some people wouldn't understand it. Whereas the term loan is easily understood . I dont know. 🤷‍♀️. Lol 

For the sake of clarity then perhaps the term Student Loan should be changed.  A lot of people are very put off by the term loan, seeing it as a millstone round their necks. I can remember a time when mortgages were often seen in the same light, especially by the working class......for want of a better expression.  

As an aside - my parents were appalled when I first took out a mortgage. Mainly through fear I think.  I was the first in our family to become a homeowner and they were nervous for me.  The phrase "biting off more than you can chew" was bandied about.  Once they saw it working for me, they then took out a mortgage themselves and bought their first property.  They were in the early 50s by then. I proved to them that it could be done - "people like us" could own their own home. 

I think that's how many people feel about student loans. Whilst there are many people who are perfectly happy with the word loan, seeing a student loan as a solid investment in their future,  it still scares the bejesus out of some people.  Especially as the figures can be eye watering. Six figure loans are not uncommon, especially when you add in a Masters or PhD.  Tbh I'm not sure that the term "graduate tax" would appeal much either.  Lol   Many people might find it hard to put a positive spin on paying what they might see as an extra tax burden. 

I appreciate we are never going to go back to free tertiary education, those days are gone.  What is needed is a rethink about how education is funded.  

I don't know.......Maybe something along the lines of say.....if you train in medicine your tuition is free but you must commit to working  for the NHS a for a certain length of time after graduation. I know Boots used to have a scheme like this as did some engineering firms.  

Just an idea......

Interesting talk.😁.  Time for coffee and then tackle the weeds. 

Pat38493

"If a student loan is not a "real" loan in terms of structure and conditions, then why call it a loan"

If you believe what Martin Lewis says, it's because the government at the time did not want it to be called a tax for for obvious reasons.  Also - I guess it evolved from the earlier system of small student loans to top up living costs that would have usually been paid off within the person's working life.

They still could have called it a "Graduate Contribution" or suchlike though.  The point is though that one should be careful about treating is as a debt just like any other loan, mortgage or suchlike as there are fundamental differences, which is why Martin Lewis had a long debate with a parent on his podcast the other day trying to convince him that his son should take the student loan and the father should not pay him the money instead.  Even someone who qualifies as a doctor might go off and work for MSF and never earn enough to pay back the loan.

helensbiggestfan

Thanks. I'll look out for that podcast.  See if I can get my head round it all.  

Yes I can well believe the govt of the day were wary of calling it a tax.  

Thankfully my boys are done with all that now, although no 2 is still paying back.  And then it will be the grandchildren next.....lol. 

I dare say things will change again before then.