How much to live on

Organgrinder

Earlier it was suggested people look at the debt free section.

Omg. Never again.

It's a hotbed of people who seem to nose into other people's finances, criticise people's spending choices and downright rudeness. Some even mention how well they are managing in what appears to be the ultimate rubbing someone's nose in it.

I'm sure many who post their diaries do so to try to help themselves. Yet, some vilify them for not taking any advice, even at times within a day or so after posting their views.

I'll stick mainly to the over 50s!!

helensbiggestfan

I visit the debt free board occasionally but only post if I think I can make a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.  Many years ago I worked as a debt counsellor with a special interest in helping people with mortgage arrears.  I learned then that one has to be really ready to commit to debt reduction, the timing had to be right and it takes a lot of willpower to stick to any debt management programme, it can take some people several attempts before they are ready to finally make the necessary sacrifices. .  

Ok a bit of a 4 Yorkshiremen moment here..........one which i think is linked to the debt free board, and which highlights how lifestyle choices are such an integral part of both incurring debt and its polar opposite, building wealth.  

 I wonder how many of the debts incurred are linked to genuine misfortune and unexpected curved balls and how much to lifestyle creep, trying to keep up with the latest gizmos and gadgets, designer this and designer that.  

I look at the credit card debts some people are dealing with and wince.  Mortgages or rent, student loans, car payments etc are all, to a certain extent unavoidable,  but how much of that credit card debt is down to consumer spending, wants rather than needs, clothes, furniture, entertainment, holidays and so on.  

When I first bought a house, I had no carpets or floor coverings,  my mum gave me old sheets that I dyed and sewed up into curtains, no furniture to speak of just a new bed, a cooker and a second hand fridge, a tiny black and white portable tv.  No washing machine, I washed everything by hand.  And that's about it.  Sofas, Chairs, tables were family cast offs, kitchen ware, crockery etc were bought as cheaply as possible (good old Woolworths!!!!).   Coffee tables, bedside tables were old fruit crates with a cloth over them.  As for new clothes, holidays, weekends away, meals out. Forget it. In my dreams. 

However there was no debt, other than my mortgage.  Perhaps as well with the eye watering interest rates.  

I wasn't unusual by any means. Most Boomers and Gen Xers started out exactly the same. Saving up for furniture and household goods, slowly building a home.  I don't think many new home owners these days would be prepared to live like that and maybe that's why they carry so much consumer debt, in the form of personal loans, credit cards.  I think it's mainly credit card debt which torpedoes budgets and makes wealth building, pension planning and in some cases even being able to save up for a house deposit nigh on impossible.  How many people are spending double in rent what they could be spending on a mortgage. 

We Boomers are often accused of having it easy and to a certain extent we did, especially with housing costs.  House price and wage ratios were better in sync than they currently are and there was more job certainty. However, most of my contemporaries all lived a very basic lifestyle for years, skimping and saving to furnish their homes and bring up families.  The foreign holidays, nice clothes and fancy meals out only happened after several years of living very frugally to get established. 

We laugh at the 4 Yorkshiremen sketch because the exaggeration factor makes it so funny but there was some truth there behind the jokes.  Our grandparents and parents lived hard lives, the tales of hardships and want are heartbreaking.  By the time Boomers and Gen X came along things were getting easier but even so compared with the following generations a lot of us lived very Spartan lives, at least in our youth and early adulthood. 

I do agree that Boomers got lucky in the sense that buying a house was easier so we had the chance to build wealth through equity.  And there's no doubt in my mind that the generations that have followed haven't had that same window of opportunity.  My millennial kids and most of their peers have had help from the bank of mum of dad to get started.  But not all that generation had parents who could help out.  

It's easy to criticise folk for what we might call reckless spending and excessive levels of debt but I wonder how many of them "comfort spend" because they see their dreams as unattainable.  So they give up and live for today.  

I went out for lunch yesterday.......very nice mid range independent restaurant but nothing too fancy.  Just a main course and one glass of wine,  £22.50. 😱😂.  No starter, no pudding, no coffee.  We came home and had coffee and desert here......

I'm cheap date😁

Albermarle

helensbiggestfan said:

I visit the debt free board occasionally but only post if I think I can make a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.  Many years ago I worked as a debt counsellor with a special interest in helping people with mortgage arrears.  I learned then that one has to be really ready to commit to debt reduction, the timing had to be right and it takes a lot of willpower to stick to any debt management programme, it can take some people several attempts before they are ready to finally make the necessary sacrifices. .  

Ok a bit of a 4 Yorkshiremen moment here..........one which i think is linked to the debt free board, and which highlights how lifestyle choices are such an integral part of both incurring debt and its polar opposite, building wealth.  

 I wonder how many of the debts incurred are linked to genuine misfortune and unexpected curved balls and how much to lifestyle creep, trying to keep up with the latest gizmos and gadgets, designer this and designer that.  

I look at the credit card debts some people are dealing with and wince.  Mortgages or rent, student loans, car payments etc are all, to a certain extent unavoidable,  but how much of that credit card debt is down to consumer spending, wants rather than needs, clothes, furniture, entertainment, holidays and so on.  

When I first bought a house, I had no carpets or floor coverings,  my mum gave me old sheets that I dyed and sewed up into curtains, no furniture to speak of just a new bed, a cooker and a second hand fridge, a tiny black and white portable tv.  No washing machine, I washed everything by hand.  And that's about it.  Sofas, Chairs, tables were family cast offs, kitchen ware, crockery etc were bought as cheaply as possible (good old Woolworths!!!!).   Coffee tables, bedside tables were old fruit crates with a cloth over them.  As for new clothes, holidays, weekends away, meals out. Forget it. In my dreams. 

However there was no debt, other than my mortgage.  Perhaps as well with the eye watering interest rates.  

I wasn't unusual by any means. Most Boomers and Gen Xers started out exactly the same. Saving up for furniture and household goods, slowly building a home.  I don't think many new home owners these days would be prepared to live like that and maybe that's why they carry so much consumer debt, in the form of personal loans, credit cards.  I think it's mainly credit card debt which torpedoes budgets and makes wealth building, pension planning and in some cases even being able to save up for a house deposit nigh on impossible.  How many people are spending double in rent what they could be spending on a mortgage. 

We Boomers are often accused of having it easy and to a certain extent we did, especially with housing costs.  House price and wage ratios were better in sync than they currently are and there was more job certainty. However, most of my contemporaries all lived a very basic lifestyle for years, skimping and saving to furnish their homes and bring up families.  The foreign holidays, nice clothes and fancy meals out only happened after several years of living very frugally to get established. 

We laugh at the 4 Yorkshiremen sketch because the exaggeration factor makes it so funny but there was some truth there behind the jokes.  Our grandparents and parents lived hard lives, the tales of hardships and want are heartbreaking.  By the time Boomers and Gen X came along things were getting easier but even so compared with the following generations a lot of us lived very Spartan lives, at least in our youth and early adulthood. 

I do agree that Boomers got lucky in the sense that buying a house was easier so we had the chance to build wealth through equity.  And there's no doubt in my mind that the generations that have followed haven't had that same window of opportunity.  My millennial kids and most of their peers have had help from the bank of mum of dad to get started.  But not all that generation had parents who could help out.  

It's easy to criticise folk for what we might call reckless spending and excessive levels of debt but I wonder how many of them "comfort spend" because they see their dreams as unattainable.  So they give up and live for today.  

I went out for lunch yesterday.......very nice mid range independent restaurant but nothing too fancy.  Just a main course and one glass of wine,  £22.50. 😱😂.  No starter, no pudding, no coffee.  We came home and had coffee and desert here......

I'm cheap date😁

I agree with most of what you say, but regarding the comment in bold, I would just add what I already said in a previous post.
It was also a time of high social mobility and a lot of people from low income backgrounds were able to haul themselves up the career/salary/class ladder. Probably mainly due to a big increase in people going to Uni/Poly for free and an increase in white collar type jobs relative to blue collar.
So buying a house also became easier for these people as they earned significantly more than their parents.

Before anyone says anything, of course not everyone benefited from this .

helensbiggestfan

Definitely.  Free tertiary education was a huge leg up for the working class.  Now student debt is a huge burden. I wonder how many are scared off by the prospect. 

I was talking to my son yesterday.  His girlfriend was saying how lucky she was in being one of the last not to have to pay tuition fees and benefitting from a bursary for her nursing degree.  She managed to get qualified without incurring any debt, although she did work part time whilst studying, so that probably helped.  

My son is still paying off his student loan but again he is more fortunate than some because my husband and I did manage to help out.  His debt is comparatively low but even so his repayments are £250 a month, so not an insignificant amount.  Thankfully he only has a couple of years left.  He has already said that because he is used to managing without that money when the debt is cleared he will channel it into his pension and his investments.  

 This from the once debt ridden spendthrift, who is now a reformed character and is quietly stashing away for the future.  😁

Albermarle

helensbiggestfan said:

Definitely.  Free tertiary education was a huge leg up for the working class.  Now student debt is a huge burden. I wonder how many are scared off by the prospect. 

I was talking to my son yesterday.  His girlfriend was saying how lucky she was in being one of the last not to have to pay tuition fees and benefitting from a bursary for her nursing degree.  She managed to get qualified without incurring any debt, although she did work part time whilst studying, so that probably helped.  

My son is still paying off his student loan but again he is more fortunate than some because my husband and I did manage to help out.  His debt is comparatively low but even so his repayments are £250 a month, so not an insignificant amount.  Thankfully he only has a couple of years left.  He has already said that because he is used to managing without that money when the debt is cleared he will channel it into his pension and his investments.  

 This from the once debt ridden spendthrift, who is now a reformed character and is quietly stashing away for the future.  😁

Just to be a bit pedantic and to quote Martin Lewis.
The student loan is not really a debt, but a tax for graduate employees earning over a certain amount .
A majority never have to pay all of it back ( and many pay nothing back).
Still it was a lot better when it was totally free !