How much to live on

Organgrinder

I'm just happy I have a decent enough retirement to look forward to.

When I look at the various percentiles for people in retirement, I am truly shocked at how few people actually get anywhere close to what many would call a decent standard of living.

I'm grateful for what I have. I shamelessly try to maximise it too. 

But, I never have, nor never will, do so to the detriment of anyone else.

This for me sums up a lot about our society. But I don't want to start a political argument. Though I wonder at times, how much is enough?

Clowance

Huh and the church is one of the worst culprits for not helping the poor. 

Albermarle

[Deleted User] said:

My 'gold-plated (public sector)  pension' was earned by working very hard for 42 years in challenging educational environments.

Most of my lifelong friends receive private sector DB and/or DC based pension income that is up to four times mine!

However, certain publications only ever choose to see the other side, if it sells more copies and/or gets more clicks by whipping up false outrage.

For example, Do they really begrudge anybody a guaranteed index linked pension income of just a few thousand a year to those heroes (in my mind anyway) who spent years cleaning hospital toilets and wards for little more than the minimum wage?

Like @Organgrinder I will say more as I wish to stay calm!

Added to your comment above.

I think ( without taking any political side) that more of an issue is that many NHS staff in particular do not seem to appreciate or understand the value of their pensions. They feel a bit hard done by/underpaid, because they do not realise the value of the pension. If they did they would be less likely to leave.
 I am sure many would give it up if offered say a 15% pay increase instead, although it would not be a very good decision.

Organgrinder

Albermarle said:

[Deleted User] said:

My 'gold-plated (public sector)  pension' was earned by working very hard for 42 years in challenging educational environments.

Most of my lifelong friends receive private sector DB and/or DC based pension income that is up to four times mine!

However, certain publications only ever choose to see the other side, if it sells more copies and/or gets more clicks by whipping up false outrage.

For example, Do they really begrudge anybody a guaranteed index linked pension income of just a few thousand a year to those heroes (in my mind anyway) who spent years cleaning hospital toilets and wards for little more than the minimum wage?

Like @Organgrinder I will say more as I wish to stay calm!

Added to your comment above.

I think ( without taking any political side) that more of an issue is that many NHS staff in particular do not seem to appreciate or understand the value of their pensions. They feel a bit hard done by/underpaid, because they do not realise the value of the pension. If they did they would be less likely to leave.
 I am sure many would give it up if offered say a 15% pay increase instead, although it would not be a very good decision.

The same is true in teaching. The new scheme (career average) is still very favourable. Someone starting at the age of 22 gives up 7.4% of their salary and buys 1/57 of it. What many don't consider is that every year it gets revalued at CPI plus 1.6%. Compound that over 38 years (to retire at 60) and that year has increased by 82% in real terms. It is, in fact, worth more than the last year had they remained a classroom teacher

Someone in that position who has progressed through to the upper pay scale even taking early retirement factors into consideration  would get a pension equivalent to £32k per annum at today's rates. Their contributions if invested at 5% real term growth would at today's rates be worth about £475k.

So it's a still a very good pension.

However, I cannot stand the term gold plated. For me, it's part of the overall package. 

kempiejon

Having done a stint in the real world a redundancy changed my tack and I worked around IT support in education for a dozen years and often heard staff suggesting they could get more in industry or the managers saying it was hard to recruit because of the pay grading. I had a frank chat with one manager and suggested he should emphasise what I saw as the main benefits of the role. I told him my move to education looked like a pay cut it was life changing; I relished the light workload, 37 strict hours per week - we were pushed out the building by 5pm so the caretakers could lock up, overtime at time and half and double at weekends, generous holiday - even for me full time year round the summers were a breeze as the place was deserted for 2+ months, defined benefit index linked pensions. I tell you if it weren't for kids and teachers I'd have stayed at it.

Plasticman

kempiejon said:

Having done a stint in the real world a redundancy changed my tack and I worked around IT support in education for a dozen years and often heard staff suggesting they could get more in industry or the managers saying it was hard to recruit because of the pay grading. I had a frank chat with one manager and suggested he should emphasise what I saw as the main benefits of the role. I told him my move to education looked like a pay cut it was life changing; I relished the light workload, 37 strict hours per week - we were pushed out the building by 5pm so the caretakers could lock up, overtime at time and half and double at weekends, generous holiday - even for me full time year round the summers were a breeze as the place was deserted for 2+ months, defined benefit index linked pensions. I tell you if it weren't for kids and teachers I'd have stayed at it.

I did some analysis of a staff survey in a public sector organisation and it was quite striking how little people valued their pension until you got into the over 50s age group. I guess people earlier on in their careers are much more interested in their mortgage payments than accruing something for the future.

Organgrinder

Plasticman said:

kempiejon said:

Having done a stint in the real world a redundancy changed my tack and I worked around IT support in education for a dozen years and often heard staff suggesting they could get more in industry or the managers saying it was hard to recruit because of the pay grading. I had a frank chat with one manager and suggested he should emphasise what I saw as the main benefits of the role. I told him my move to education looked like a pay cut it was life changing; I relished the light workload, 37 strict hours per week - we were pushed out the building by 5pm so the caretakers could lock up, overtime at time and half and double at weekends, generous holiday - even for me full time year round the summers were a breeze as the place was deserted for 2+ months, defined benefit index linked pensions. I tell you if it weren't for kids and teachers I'd have stayed at it.

I did some analysis of a staff survey in a public sector organisation and it was quite striking how little people valued their pension until you got into the over 50s age group. I guess people earlier on in their careers are much more interested in their mortgage payments than accruing something for the future.

I think this is very true. Pensions when you're younger seem so far away. 

When you're older, priorities change. Your mortgage has either gone or become a smaller percentage of your salary. Children have gone. Etc etc.

I remember in my twenties considering not investing in a pension. Indeed at one point I chose not to as it was a final salary scheme and I had decided to go back to University. In the end I changed my mind and stayed but started a private pension.

Through a very fortunate chain of events I accrued 10 years pension despite having been there only 6.5 years after the scheme rules allowed me to opt back in.

When I look back however, I do wonder what the hell was I thinking.

barnstar2077

Organgrinder said:

Plasticman said:

kempiejon said:

Having done a stint in the real world a redundancy changed my tack and I worked around IT support in education for a dozen years and often heard staff suggesting they could get more in industry or the managers saying it was hard to recruit because of the pay grading. I had a frank chat with one manager and suggested he should emphasise what I saw as the main benefits of the role. I told him my move to education looked like a pay cut it was life changing; I relished the light workload, 37 strict hours per week - we were pushed out the building by 5pm so the caretakers could lock up, overtime at time and half and double at weekends, generous holiday - even for me full time year round the summers were a breeze as the place was deserted for 2+ months, defined benefit index linked pensions. I tell you if it weren't for kids and teachers I'd have stayed at it.

I did some analysis of a staff survey in a public sector organisation and it was quite striking how little people valued their pension until you got into the over 50s age group. I guess people earlier on in their careers are much more interested in their mortgage payments than accruing something for the future.

I think this is very true. Pensions when you're younger seem so far away. 

When you're older, priorities change. Your mortgage has either gone or become a smaller percentage of your salary. Children have gone. Etc etc.

I remember in my twenties considering not investing in a pension. Indeed at one point I chose not to as it was a final salary scheme and I had decided to go back to University. In the end I changed my mind and stayed but started a private pension.

Through a very fortunate chain of events I accrued 10 years pension despite having been there only 6.5 years after the scheme rules allowed me to opt back in.

When I look back however, I do wonder what the hell was I thinking.

Thankfully I had heard Martin Lewis on the radio saying how important pensions were, otherwise I would not have made them a priority when I was young either!

MarzipanCrumble

I remember a meeting in NHS where I struck up a conversation with a young admin in his late 20's.  He had opted out of the NHS pension, couldn't believe it.  Why?  Better, more exciting things to spend his money on......

Savvy_Sue

I had the joy(!) and privilege of explaining our payroll and pension arrangements to new staff in my last few working years. Bear in mind these were all younger than me, and several of them still in their 20s. Also touchy feely people rather than hard-nosed techie types.

I'd just say: we have this pension scheme, it's not the best, but I'll have to opt you in, and you'll pay 5% of salary and we'll put in 3%. You can opt out, but we'll only put that money in if you're putting your share in. So please stay in if you possibly can, and also think about increasing your contribution if you can, because paying £5 per month now is going to be worth a heck of a lot more than waiting until you're my age. ☺️

If you leave, the money will still be there, and there's a good chance any new employer in this field will use the same provider. Plus if you've previously been with this lot, it will all move seamlessly.

The only people who opted out had sensible reasons (like only being in the UK for a year and intending to return 'home', with claiming a tiny UK pension appearing difficult).

I was very proud of DS2 joining the pension scheme and making extra contributions in his first graduate job. Loved their glossy brochure, which featured several film stars! He was on the technical side of the entertainment industry.