BMW X5 Diesel - Used or New - why so expensive do you think? + Pessimistic GFV

gzoom

Bachelorplace said:

my 740d feels old - too much road noise- older it gets the more it goes in. Expensive to run. Not much driving joy - wallows about.

The X5 will be a nicer car, my old 335i was probably the best combustion car I owned overall, but Tesla's approach to car software development means our Model X has far exceeded my expectations. Some people don't get on with Tesla's approach of been keen to 'beta' software at every opportunity, am fine with it, but no everyone is. 

Coming up to 4 years old, I still simile every time I get in it, its cheap to fun, and there is still nothing else on the road quite like it


At some point next year I look forwards to trying the 'Full Self Driving' beta software on my car, I've never owned a car that's had so much additional software functionality pushed to it 4 years+ post deliver!

gzoom

DrEskimo said:

ontheroad1970 said:

50,000 miles!!!!  I do that in 2 years normally.  Pretty carp warranty...

Yea I was thinking the same! I swear it used to be unlimited mileage, so must have changed. Proper stingy....

Ironically it's the car warranty I value most on an EV. The battery is the least of my concerns....

The car warranty has always been 50K and 4 years, thats pretty much in line with every other 'premium' brand. Given most people do less than 8K a year for the majority of owners 50K will last 4 years. 

AdrianC

gzoom said:

DrEskimo said:

ontheroad1970 said:

50,000 miles!!!!  I do that in 2 years normally.  Pretty carp warranty...

Yea I was thinking the same! I swear it used to be unlimited mileage, so must have changed. Proper stingy....

Ironically it's the car warranty I value most on an EV. The battery is the least of my concerns....

The car warranty has always been 50K and 4 years, thats pretty much in line with every other 'premium' brand. Given most people do less than 8K a year for the majority of owners 50K will last 4 years. 

3yr/60k is most common. That's 20k/yr.
4yr/50k might be longer time-wise, but it's only 12.5k/yr, so the chances of an average driver hitting the mileage cap before the time cap are far higher.

On top of that, many of the 3yr/60k manufacturers are unlimited mileage for the first two years.

Grumpy_chap

I think there is a belief (including by manufacturers) that purchasers of an EV will also retain an ICE for long journeys, so the EV will naturally do fewer miles than a typical ICE.  Certainly, up until now that has probably been very true but, as EV ranges are increasing they become a real option for someone with a long commute and the M-Way charging makes planned longer trips viable also.  I would now consider an EV, despite having previously had a 70 mile each way commute whereas that was not even a sensible consideration as recently as a couple of years back.

Having said that, and EV should be inherently more reliable than an ICE, so the option of long warranties should be easy for the manufacturers to put out there.  Also, the biggest EV manufacturer hails from the land of the long warranty, so that makes it odder that the warranty is quite low from Tesla.  The other benefit of offering a long warranty on a new technology is to support the market place establishment of the product.

The fact the warranty is short does make you wonder what the manufacturers may know that we don't...

gzoom

Grumpy_chap said:

The fact the warranty is short does make you wonder what the manufacturers may know that we don't...

The warranty on the battery and motor for our car is unlimited miles and 8 years.

The main car warranty is on par with BMW/Mercedes, and can be extended to 8 years and 100k.

I've done coming up to 65k miles in EV, my total cost per mile interms of running costs is under 4p per mile, including fuel/tyres/servicing. No combustion car can get close to that figure.

The more miles you do in an EV the 'cheaper' it gets. 

I've actually decided to use our EV less in the last 12 months because I was feeling guilty about driving so much due to how cheap it is to drive any EV!! 

hareng

gzoom said:

I've done coming up to 65k miles in EV, my total cost per mile interms of running costs is under 4p per mile, including fuel/tyres/servicing. No combustion car can get close to that figure.

 

How many miles do you get from the rear tyres, cheapest shopping around cost fitted of £133 each Avon, decent from £150 each?
Cost me 2.5p a mile just on rear wheel tyre wear alone in a front wheel drive car 12 years ago A and motorways!, Teslas a lot dearer. Have you missed energy costs to charge it daily as well. Tesla Supercharger: based on a price of 24p/kWh, a full charge in the Model 3 Standard Range Plus costs £12, will need it if travelled 120 mile in the summer. This delivers a range of 254 miles minus cold weather, rain, night driving and wet weather. Thats 4.7p per mile alone. If charge at home daily the latest 82kw battery at a very low 13p/kw thats 4.1p mile excluding any wear and tare or depreciation.

Grumpy_chap

gzoom said:

The more miles you do in an EV the 'cheaper' it gets. 

That is true of any car, assuming by "cheaper" you are interpreting in cost-per-mile terms.  This is because of the depreciation plus annual costs being spread more thinly.

Obviously, to do more miles and pay for energy (whether petrol, diesel, electricity, hydrogen, or LPG) costs more than not doing the miles.  Even if the energy is "free" (i.e. solar), that energy value could have been used elsewhere and there is still cost on tyre / brake wear etc. by doing miles compared to doing no miles. 

Any car will cost more to do a mile than to not do a mile.

gzoom

hareng said:

How many miles do you get from the rear tyres, cheapest shopping around cost fitted of £133 each Avon, decent from £150 each?
Cost me 2.5p a mile just on rear wheel tyre wear alone in a front wheel drive car 12 years ago A and motorways!, Teslas a lot dearer. Have you missed energy costs to charge it daily as well.

I'm getting 25K miles out of a set of 'mid range' tyres - £220 for x2 fitted in the summer ( I did the other x2 a few month later) - 1.7p per mile. 

My EV does 2.5 miles per kWh post charging inefficiency, its charged at home 99% of the time, I would pay 9p per kWh for E7 charging, but I also have solar PV + home battery storage which means in the summer even when charging the EV my 'fuel' cost was essentially £0, but even if charged 100% at home its 3.6p per mile in fuel.


So fuel + tyres= 5.3p per mile.
Servicing has been £100 per 20K, in fact the current Tesla has cost me £150 (for DIY air filter) in the last 50K, so virtually nothing.

EVs have considerable lower running costs than combustion cars, you simply cannot argue against it.  

Bachelorplace

The fact the warranty is short does make you wonder what the manufacturers may know that we don't...

This is good! I like. 
I am confused about battery thing and it seems to wind people up somewhat when you bring it up? Why is this? 
A battery nearing the end of its life is not really like a ICE warranty extension - but if you can renew the battery warranty then that is great news I did not know you could do that. They didn't tell me that at Tesla when I asked the question - do you have a link please where a warranty can be purchased for a battery warranty on a car purchased outside of the dealer network?

"Extended Warranty

As long as your vehicle is still protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty, you can purchase Extended Warranty from Helvetia, which extends your protection for up to an additional 4 years or 50.000 miles, whichever comes first.

Extended Warranty provides your vehicle with protection in case of electrical or mechanical failures and your vehicle requires repair or replacement of a part for a reason other than wear and tear, normal deterioration or negligence. This excludes your vehicle’s Battery and Drive Unit, which are covered under separate warranties.

So I am assuming you need two warranties? Oh heavens.  
We should state that the 150k miles on the X and the S are very good warranties - for the price of the car. Strange not available in the Model 3!
Here are the limitations: I have put in bold what I deem questionable. Largely "deterioration"
This Tesla Parts, Body & Paint Limited Warranty does not cover any damage or malfunction directly or indirectly caused by, due to, or resulting from, normal wear or deterioration, abuse, misuse, modifications, other defective parts, negligence, accident, collision, impact, or lack of or improper use, installation, maintenance, storage or transport, including, but not limited to, any of the following: • Failure to follow the instructions, maintenance and warnings published in the documentation supplied; • External factors, including but not limited to, physical impact force, faulty or damaged electrical wiring, junction boxes, circuit breakers, receptacles or power outlets, the environment or an act of God, including, but not limited to, fire, earthquake, water, lightning and other environmental conditions; • Any corrosion or paint defects including, but not limited to, corrosion from defects in nonTesla manufactured or supplied materials or workmanship causing perforation (holes) in body panels or the chassis from the inside out; • Surface or cosmetic corrosion causing perforation in body panels or the chassis from the outside in, such as stone chips or scratches; General Terms and Conditions General Terms and Conditions 3 • Corrosion and paint defects caused by, due to, or resulting from accidents, paint matching, abuse, neglect, improper maintenance or operation of the vehicle, installation of an accessory, exposure to chemical substances, or damages resulting from an act of God or nature, fire, or improper storage; • Failure to contact Tesla upon discovery of a defect covered by this Tesla Parts, Body & Paint Repair Limited Warranty; any repair, alteration or modification to covered Parts, or the installation or use of any Parts or accessories, made by a person or facility not authorized or certified to do so; • Lack of or improper repair or maintenance, including use of non-genuine Tesla accessories or Parts; • Coverage under any other warranty or insurance; • Failure due to damage from off-road or marine use; • Parts installed in vehicles for racing, competition or commercial use; and, • Charging equipment used forcommercial purposes.

Glad to hear how Tesla have fixed all your issues - I suspect they bring you a replacement car whilst its in repair on the lorry right incase its a way for a long time? Obvious question I know. 

The word Limited anything does scare me - many items in a car that can make us claim are those annoying things, headlight condensation, squeaky panels, rattles, brake noises, seat or leather issues, paint defects. Would you mind listing your faults here so we can see what they did? This would give us a great example of stellar warranty love. 

Values
This example is £37k and I might say is a brilliant deal. And does somewhat illustrate a saving for NOT buying inside the dealer network and not buying new. Again - I would not buy outside the network for all the reasons we are discussing. 
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009264243915?postcode=sn251ta&model=MODEL 3&sort=price-asc&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=Used&include-delivery-option=on&make=TESLA&price-from=35000&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&page=1
In terms of the battery for following users - we would need to discuss the Model S 
Here is a 4 year old model S at £35,000-ish which was around £73000 4 years ago a loss of 52% or £791 a month 
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009264243915?postcode=sn251ta&model=MODEL 3&sort=price-asc&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=Used&include-delivery-option=on&make=TESLA&price-from=35000&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&page=1
This is not great if we are comparing to a £73,000 X5 but again its the Model 3 I am thinking about. 

The point of the thread though has been somewhat lost and it will be opinion on used values rather like investment that will prevail. My friend paid 57k for a Model 3 the other day and has no concerns about selling it. 
I suppose maybe it is still a little too early for some of us. In that if Tesla keep rolling brilliant low finance deals on new cars the PCP-ers will do that and drive down the price of used ones. 

I think noting a link to the prices of battery warranty renewal is the clincher... as I would probably just purchase that warranty and sell it with the car to the next owner. 

Grumpy_chap

Same link both times.
That model 3 hardly looks a bargain as barely any cheaper than brand new 1st registered keeper direct from Tesla, 6% less for a whole year old and 3k miles done - if you do find the used car needs to call on that warranty there will be less goodwill with Tesla.