FTSE rising whilst prospect of FTA seems to be fading

csgohan4

sadly people who read the tabloids believe the drivel and that voting brexit means getting rid of the so called 'Immigrants' from the EU. Ironic it is the non EU immigrants which are far greater. 

Where are the people now who will pick our fruits at the farms, because the UK people aren't doing it, despite the rhetoric that the EU migrants are taking their jobs. Irony the farms had to fly people from Romania to do it this summer, clearly the brexiteers wanted their cake and eat. As long as other people do it and not them and happily claim tax payers money. 

Brexit can be described quite well by a comedian as the person who normally starts a 100m race and shoots himself in the foot. 

Why you would trade so called 'independence /sovereignty'  for a poor deal financially? UK surely makes more exports to the EU than the rest of the world?

utter maddness for those who voted brexit. We are all paying for this sadly, higher food prices at the very least due to the currency post brexit and now more red tape and less favourable terms than being in the single market.

Guess could be worse and we could be trading on WTO

The British public and the Brexiteers were under an illusion they could negotiate any deal they wanted and the EU would accept, how wrong they were. The UK are no longer an empire and a shadow of their former selves, they had no trump card, albeit a smelly fishy small card to play. 

A well known Brexiteer, Dyson bailed and Tesla bailed and chose EU instead. Where are the 'supposed' benefits now?

It remains to be seen whether the NHS will get the extra 200£ million from leaving the EU. 

LHW99

UK surely makes more exports to the EU than the rest of the world?

Not according to gov.uk

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-exports-to-non-eu-countries-continue-to-outstrip-eu

csgohan4

LHW99 said:

UK surely makes more exports to the EU than the rest of the world?

Not according to gov.uk

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-exports-to-non-eu-countries-continue-to-outstrip-eu

Surprising given the vast area covered by The EU, however making deals with individual countries, rather than en bloc like the EU, will be very time consuming/expensive and will unlikely have favourable terms compared to the EU as they know they have the UK over a barrel. 

Thrugelmir

csgohan4 said:

LHW99 said:

UK surely makes more exports to the EU than the rest of the world?

Not according to gov.uk

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-exports-to-non-eu-countries-continue-to-outstrip-eu

Surprising given the vast area covered by The EU, however making deals with individual countries, rather than en bloc like the EU, will be very time consuming/expensive and will unlikely have favourable terms compared to the EU as they know they have the UK over a barrel. 

Only 11% of UK trade is with countries with which there's an existing EU trade agreement. The creation of the RCEP has created a headache for the EU. Now the bigggest trade area in the world. 

csgohan4

Thrugelmir said:

csgohan4 said:

LHW99 said:

UK surely makes more exports to the EU than the rest of the world?

Not according to gov.uk

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-exports-to-non-eu-countries-continue-to-outstrip-eu

Surprising given the vast area covered by The EU, however making deals with individual countries, rather than en bloc like the EU, will be very time consuming/expensive and will unlikely have favourable terms compared to the EU as they know they have the UK over a barrel. 

Only 11% of UK trade is with countries with which there's an existing EU trade agreement. The creation of the RCEP has created a headache for the EU. Now the bigggest trade area in the world. 

Now with the loss of the UK, it will be a blow for the EU

To be fair, EU did themselves no favours with their very strict  laws and governance and sadly they were never united imo. Look at the EU response when Italy suffered first under Covid. They only have their own interests at hand and only chip in when it affects their own Country, ergo NL vetoing financial relief for Covid, which I find unbelievable. 

What's done is done regarding Brexit, I only hope for damage limitation but with more red tape and costs to business here, there maybe more suffering ahead. While the brexiteers are sniggering in their rich holiday houses abroad, not caring how brexit affects the average Joe. 

Alexland

csgohan4 said:

It remains to be seen whether the NHS will get the extra 200£ million from leaving the EU. 

With the money they are spending on the pandemic it seems likely in the short term.

Sailtheworld

Bobziz said:

Sailtheworld said:

BananaRepublic said:

Sailtheworld said:

John464 said:

All I know so far is this will be a deal that puts up barriers to trade we haven't got now

A vote to leave the EU was a vote to make trade with the EU more difficult. This was known when we stepped into the polling booths on referendum day.

No it wasn’t. There may have been many reasons to favour Brexit, but arguably the key one was to escape from ever increasing political and economic union with the EU. An increase in trade friction was an inevitable side effect. Frictionless trade at any price is not desirable. 

You're completely agreeing with me. A vote to leave the EU was a vote to make trade with the EU more difficult. Of course those voting to leave thought the potential benefits would be worth it. 

What are the benefits and when do they begin ? Genuine question, as I've struggled to find the answers. What I've heard so far is the control and sovereignty things, but I'm keen to understand how they will translate into a better standard of living for the majority. Any objective evidenced based thoughts would be much appreciated.

The majority of reports (including the governments) trying to fathom the effects of the various ways of leaving the EU suggest that the financial benefits are negative. Leaving the EU is for the political benefits i.e. some people either didn't believe there would be negative effects or thought the non financial benefits would make up for it.

Personally I never got het up about sovereignty / fishing / contributions and think the financial effects will be negative anyway. I don't think the UK has any particular trade advantage outside the EU but I'm happy to be proven wrong. Time will tell.

eskbanker

IanManc said:

csgohan4 said:

Ironic it is the non EU immigrants which are far greater. 

According to the Migration Statistics on the UK Government website : "In the year ending December 2019:

• 6.2 million people were living in the UK who had the nationality of a different country (9% of the total population),
• 3.7 million EU nationals were living in the UK"  which means that EU immigrants were 59.67% of the total, so your assertion that non-EU immigrants are "far greater" in number is made up too.  

I think this is one of those 'lies, damned lies and statistics' points that's highly dependent on definition - it's not difficult to find statistics that show that annual net migration is consistently greater for non-EU than EU, such as at https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/



although the latest published gov.uk quarterly figures indicate that annual EU net migration outstripped non-EU for a few years immediately prior to the referendum, before following the divergent pattern in the above chart thereafter.

Thrugelmir

csgohan4 said:

Thrugelmir said:

csgohan4 said:

LHW99 said:

UK surely makes more exports to the EU than the rest of the world?

Not according to gov.uk

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-exports-to-non-eu-countries-continue-to-outstrip-eu

Surprising given the vast area covered by The EU, however making deals with individual countries, rather than en bloc like the EU, will be very time consuming/expensive and will unlikely have favourable terms compared to the EU as they know they have the UK over a barrel. 

Only 11% of UK trade is with countries with which there's an existing EU trade agreement. The creation of the RCEP has created a headache for the EU. Now the bigggest trade area in the world. 

 While the brexiteers are sniggering in their rich holiday houses abroad, not caring how brexit affects the average Joe. 

You are carrrying one big chip on your shoulder. Time to move on. Remainers living abroad are the ones who object. As it is they they now need to meet conditions of residency. The tales of woe show how much self interest determines peoples views. Much in the same way Covid has. Time to kick American Exceptionalism a byproduct of their form of capitalism into touch. 

csgohan4

IanManc said:

csgohan4 said:

sadly people who read the tabloids believe the drivel and that voting brexit means getting rid of the so called 'Immigrants' from the EU.

You've made that up.

Quick scan of google brings up pro Brexit and the usual migrant drivel

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3628840/The-true-cost-open-borders-revealed-EU-migrants-likely-job-UK-British-citizens.html

Tell me the advantages of the Brexit now with the deal as it stands? So the British gov has more 'sovereignty?' over a poorer economy for it?

All the Brexit talk was about getting the 'same' deal they had when they were under the EU and better, I really can't see it. 

In regards to migration, it is clear net migration is clear from non EU citizens, but as someone pointed out above  it depends which stats you take, however this FT article puts the situation we are in quite eloquently:

https://www.ft.com/content/63e62ff5-8f06-42ef-8cf1-ecd977862beb

in regards to food prices it is fact.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/11/03/the-brexit-vote-has-caused-a-significant-rise-in-prices-especially-food/
https://www.ft.com/content/84807466-c91d-11e7-ab18-7a9fb7d6163e

Tarif free doesn't mean cost free, the red tape and regulation businesses have to adhere to. Compliance isn't cheap and filling forms isn't either

https://www.ft.com/content/fbc6f191-6d69-4dcb-b374-0fa6e48a9a1e

I am under no illusion, brexit has happened and I am living with it, more outgoings as a result in general day to day spending. I have no regrets I voted, it is what it is. However what grates me is people who voted based on non financial reasons or those who did no research. Some brexiteers are regretting their vote. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55416939


The UK had no trump card, no negotiating advantage, they were always on the back foot, BOJO just didn't want to admit it. An example of how we are dependent on EU, 46% of merchandise was exported from the UK to the EU, only 15% of merchandise from the EU to the UK from the FT article.  the UK economy only makes up 20% of the EU economy, to think we hold all the cards is wishful thinking. 

What's done is done, but it is not without damage and long term negatives

Will be interesting how negotiations with RCEP will go, they are under no obligation to give us a deal as good as the EU, who knows, the UK has no leverage greater than the EU as a whole