What do you need in a dishwasher

Sandtree

getmore4less said:

Get some of the free Fairy platinum /plus and try them if never used them before. 

I was a find tabs cheap(~5p) person(Lidl, Aldi...) and gone off finish since I found some  ~10p  fairy ones. 

Still check your arms and filter. 

We have used them before in a different machine and I cannot say that I remember a particularly marked difference in the cleaning but our machines have never had a low temp eco settling and with being a small working family with an impatient wife its never overloaded before it runs. Will give them a go though after the industrial sized box of these ones are used up.

Filter we did clean after rescuing the spoon... bottom arm looked all ok, didnt check the top arm as it was the only one spinning recently and so assumed it was working as results were poor rather than totally unwashed.

Heedtheadvice

Essexexile wrote "

• ........44dB is quite a bit louder than 41dB. Actually it's twice as loud

Perhaps you could justify that statement?

Though I agree with the rest of your post and you make some very good points.

EssexExile

Heedtheadvice said:

Essexexile wrote "

• ........44dB is quite a bit louder than 41dB. Actually it's twice as loud

Perhaps you could justify that statement?

Though I agree with the rest of your post and you make some very good points.

It's maths. Decibels are on a logarithmic scale, based on powers of 10. The log of 10 is 1, the log of 100 is 2, the log of 1000 is 3 etc. Filling in the gaps:
the log of 20 is 1.3 (a 0.3 increase for a doubling of the original number).
the log of 40 is 1.6 (as above, a 0.3 increase for a doubling from 20 to 40).
the log of 80 is 1.9 etc.
dB are decibels, that's 10ths of bels, so an increase of 0.3 of a bel is an increase of 3 decibels. So doubling the original value increases the dB by 3.
I wish you wouldn't make me work this hard at this time of night and so far into my retirement.

DCFC79

Internal light - dont see the point in having one really but the kitchen is light enough anyway.
Wifi - dont see the point, the 1 I use has a time on it and when its done its either 000 or its blank as it turns itself off after so many minutes.
Noise level is great, its quiet.
Its a Bosch which also replaced a Bosch which was so great, lasted for nearly 20 years, only issue which meant we had to replace it were the baskets had started to disintegrate and the cost of the replacements were expensive.

What I'd look for in a dishwasher is, electric usage,  Im liking the option to move the top basket down to accommodate a dish or you can move it up to let you put say taller items in.
Brand and price are important so Id consider a Bosch and a couple of other makes, the ones I saw other day were either £399 or £429 from either John Lewis or Ao.com, Im limited as Im looking for a freestanding slimline dishwasher.

J_B

DCFC79 said:

Its a Bosch which also replaced a Bosch which was so great, lasted for nearly 20 years, only issue which meant we had to replace it were the baskets had started to disintegrate and the cost of the replacements were expensive.

We have a Bosch which has only been going for 13 years so far and our baskets are rusting a little - like you I looked at replacements, but nearly more than a new D/W 🙄

DCFC79 said:

What I'd look for in a dishwasher is, electric usage, 

Is this relevant when spending £500 (?) on a machine?

=============================================

One more thing to look out for - we have this issue in one of our holiday rental apartments (can't remember the make sorry) - the cutlery basket is at the back of the bottom tray so every-time you make a brew, you have to open the door and slide the tray all the way out, just to put the teaspoon to wash!

Biggus_Dickus

J_B said:

DCFC79 said:

Its a Bosch which also replaced a Bosch which was so great, lasted for nearly 20 years, only issue which meant we had to replace it were the baskets had started to disintegrate and the cost of the replacements were expensive.

We have a Bosch which has only been going for 13 years so far and our baskets are rusting a little - like you I looked at replacements, but nearly more than a new D/W 🙄

DCFC79 said:

What I'd look for in a dishwasher is, electric usage, 

Is this relevant when spending £500 (?) on a machine?

=============================================

One more thing to look out for - we have this issue in one of our holiday rental apartments (can't remember the make sorry) - the cutlery basket is at the back of the bottom tray so every-time you make a brew, you have to open the door and slide the tray all the way out, just to put the teaspoon to wash!

I’m a seasoned dishwasher user;...bought my first one in 1986 and had them ever since.

First world problem I know,  but having a cutlery-basket at the back certainly gets very annoying for the reasons you mentioned.

However, there are dishwashers that have rear cutlery-baskets on sale atm;...is it just bad design or is there a valid reason why some manufacturers think a ‘rear cutlery basket’ is a good idea?...is a rear basket safer? i.e. people (children!) less likely to injure themselves on upright sharp knives et al.

 

 

Heedtheadvice

@Sandtree: you might want to skip to the conclusion!!

 EssexExile, didn't mean to tax the brain, especially late at night!

I am not querying your understanding of decibels and logs but was really just trying to prompt a rethink of your statement.

The ratio of a power change is 10log(P2/P1) dB as near as 3 to make little difference for a doubling of power

The ratio of a voltage change is 20log(V2/V1) = 6dB, for a doubling of voltage, both we will agree on the Physics?

However the perceived auditory change in loudness (given a constant make up of the sound) is actually 10dB. Similarly it requires a 10dB reduction to halve the loudness.

The quoted reduction for the eco program this respect 44 down to 41 , a 3dB reduction is not very significant just a little bit quieter in practice and other acoustic factors may come into play to improve or worsen that figure.

As you mention the ear is non linear and the measurements used by the manufacturer are probably A weighted to try and compensate and give the best possible figure. If not measured weighted (usually in the machine  spec) that small reduction of figure could in fact be perceived louder (though that is unlikely) if the "new" sound does not match the sound spectrum of the original.

CONCLUSION:

For the benefit of @Sandtree who asks if the difference is noticeable, the answer is likely to be yes but not really significant. Marginal at best. Not really a criteria of note for machine choice though every reduction is welcome!

The further reduction to 38dB will be more noticeable but still not perceived to be halved! That further reduction is likely at the expense of reduced jet power on that programme so could be a longer program or poorer cleaning.

All those levels are respectable for a work area but as you (EssexExile) indicate, might still be a bit annoying in an open plan living area. The real answer is don't do open plan, have a utility room or apply acoustic treatment akin to studios environments! The latter is seldom practical especially after construction.

Biggus_Dickus

Heedtheadvice said:

@Sandtree: you might want to skip to the conclusion!!

 EssexExile, didn't mean to tax the brain, especially late at night!

I am not querying your understanding of decibels and logs but was really just trying to prompt a rethink of your statement.

The ratio of a power change is 10log(P2/P1) dB as near as 3 to make little difference for a doubling of power

The ratio of a voltage change is 20log(V2/V1) = 6dB, for a doubling of voltage, both we will agree on the Physics?

However the perceived auditory change in loudness (given a constant make up of the sound) is actually 10dB. Similarly it requires a 10dB reduction to halve the loudness.

The quoted reduction for the eco program this respect 44 down to 41 , a 3dB reduction is not very significant just a little bit quieter in practice and other acoustic factors may come into play to improve or worsen that figure.

As you mention the ear is non linear and the measurements used by the manufacturer are probably A weighted to try and compensate and give the best possible figure. If not measured weighted (usually in the machine  spec) that small reduction of figure could in fact be perceived louder (though that is unlikely) if the "new" sound does not match the sound spectrum of the original.

CONCLUSION:

For the benefit of @Sandtree who asks if the difference is noticeable, the answer is likely to be yes but not really significant. Marginal at best. Not really a criteria of note for machine choice though every reduction is welcome!

The further reduction to 38dB will be more noticeable but still not perceived to be halved! That further reduction is likely at the expense of reduced jet power on that programme so could be a longer program or poorer cleaning.

All those levels are respectable for a work area but as you (EssexExile) indicate, might still be a bit annoying in an open plan living area. The real answer is don't do open plan, have a utility room or apply acoustic treatment akin to studios environments! The latter is seldom practical especially after construction.

In the 35 years that I’ve used dishwashers I can’t remember a single one of them being intrusively noisy, to be honest. Perhaps I’ve just been lucky.

The ones I’ve had in recent years have been whisper quiet for the most part. The full-on intensive wash cycles (which I don’t use that often) are a bit noisier, but not overly so.

EssexExile

Biggus_Dickus said:

In the 35 years that I’ve used dishwashers I can’t remember a single one of them being intrusively noisy, to be honest. Perhaps I’ve just been lucky.

The ones I’ve had in recent years have been whisper quiet for the most part. The full-on intensive wash cycles (which I don’t use that often) are a bit noisier, but not overly so.

We once rented a house in America that had a dishwasher called something like "GE Silence-o-matic". You could hear it next door!
Yes, most modern machines are pretty quiet this side of the pond.

Sandtree

Heedtheadvice said:
The real answer is don't do open plan, have a utility room or apply acoustic treatment akin to studios environments! The latter is seldom practical especially after construction.

There are already multiple reasons why we regret buying the flat we did so can add it to the list but in the meantime have to accept its open plan and dont have a realistic prospect of creating a utility room (I woudnt mind too much losing our WC and making our ensuite a jack&jill thing to have a separate room but that would still be a laundry room rather than full on utility... I was told I was wrong)