Setting Order Aside Phone Hearing

Hi,
I hope all is well with you guys in these trying times. Tomorrow I have a hearing to set an order aside. The backstory is that the same private parking company had issued 3 different claims against me a couple of years ago. Later I found out through a random credit check that default judgements had been passed in my absence in all 3 cases. I had not been aware of the hearing dates because the letters had been sent to a previous address. I changed the address on my driver's license 1 month after moving but I cannot recall when I changed the address on my V5 and I fear it was more than 2 months after switching homes. After a year I received a 7 day notice from a bailiff company and that's when I applied to set the orders aside. "Luckily" I am struggling financially at the moment and was able to apply for a fee remission. 2 of the orders have been set aside without a hearing but I am expected to be available for a phone hearing to discuss the third one. I have already sent proof of changing address and proof of renewing my license to include the new address. I cannot provide proof of changing my V5 information because I had sold the car shortly after and that is now the only recorded information that appears on DVLA. I am wondering if I am missing something? I just thought I'd ask for an opinion. Thank you!
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Replies

  • edited 30 November 2020 at 10:13PM
    KeithPKeithP Forumite
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    edited 30 November 2020 at 10:13PM
    It's a bit late now, but you could've asked the DVLA to tell you when you updated your V5c.
    They hold that information, even though you may not be able to see it online.

    Good luck for tomorrow.
  • edited 1 December 2020 at 11:42PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    edited 1 December 2020 at 11:42PM
    I'd say you are missing a defence - the Judge will want to know that if the CCJ is set aside, that you have good prospects of defending it (which everyone always does because these are scam PCNs). 

    But you need to have some notes about what your defence will centre on - unclear signs is usually a good catch-all.

    Which PPC is it? 

    Which car park and do you know anything about the alleged breach of contract?  If not, tell the Judge you received no letters at all so have no idea what the details of the claim are about, and have seen no evidence of what happened or who was driving, nor whether the parking firm complied with the POFA 2012 (Schedule 4) to hold a keeper liable.  Many DO NOT, (quite deliberately, many don't use that law because it's easier for them not to, so don't let the Judge tell you that ''they just can hold you liable'').

    Ask the Judge if he/she will please order that a full copy of the claim form N1, plus all photos of the car and signage and any other evidence they rely upon, be sent to you first, by this Claimant within, say, 21 days, so that you can then defend the case meaningfully once the CCJ is set aside.
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  • CBaciuCBaciu Forumite
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    Thank you for your answers. 
    I did not think of contacting DVLA directly but will do so in the future if I ever happen to be in this situation again.

    The PPC is Euro Parking Services.

    Initially there were 3 claims in total. 2 of them were in regards to the same parking spot which is Chamberlain Buildings in Birmingham. This one is a small car park situated in front of a Tesco and I was quite surprised to find out I was fined for it twice because it operates on a 45-minute free stay basis. I have no other information. My guess is that the car was either parked on the spot designated for handicapped people (I never do that) or outside the lines of a regular parking spot. The other claim is in regards to the car park  where my brother used to work at (Birmingham Science Park). When I had the car he was a second driver on my insurance and would frequently leave for work using my vehicle. It is kind of clear to me that he caused the offence but then again I do not know the time and date of when it happened and it could just be a coincidence. I have borrowed my car to friends before. 

    Now I know that two of these claims have already been set aside and there is only one left but I don't know which is which. When I received the 7 day notice from Equita I rang them and asked about what the debt was all about and they shared the aforementioned information with me. However, again I could not connect the debts to the case numbers found on my credit check since the sums were different and I was told that this is something called "abuse of process"? They seem to have no clear fees and the sums are odd looking.

    The info I have from Equita is:
    £354.82 - Chamberlain Buildings 
    £356.73 - Science Park
    £533.56 -Chamberlain Buildings

    On my credit report I only have 2 out of 3 CCJs left now which indicate as followed:
    File date 09 Apr 2019, £443
    File Date 21 Mar 2019, £266

    Is it weird that the hearings were held in a different city than where I am based? I live in Birmingham.

    I had also called the County Court Business Centre many months prior to receiving the 7 day notice to inquire into the matter but I lost that information. Back then I had contacted Citizen Advice Bureau and was lead to believe that I had to pay £250 per claim to apply to set aside the orders. Since these figures were similar to what the CCJs were demanding me to pay I thought I'd just pay the outstanding amounts when I had the funds and decided to put the matter on pause for a while.

    I was not aware that I have to present my defence at this point. I was under the impression that at this stage I only need to prove that I did not receive any letters. Apologies for my ignorance. However, in my N244, I have mentioned that I believe not to be liable for the offence since I was not the only driver of the said vehicle.


  • henrik777henrik777 Forumite
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    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part13

    Cases where the court must set aside judgment entered under Part 12

    13.2  The court must set aside a judgment entered under Part 12 if judgment was wrongly entered because–

    (a) in the case of a judgment in default of an acknowledgment of service, any of the conditions in rule 12.3(1) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied;

    (b) in the case of a judgment in default of a defence, any of the conditions in rule 12.3(2) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied; or

    (c) the whole of the claim was satisfied before judgment was entered.



    You need to get the court to agree the rules quoted above were not followed (usually incorrect service, but not as simple as saying i moved you missed me nanananana) but essentially the claimant gets the blame for not following procedure.


    Cases where the court may set aside or vary judgment entered under Part 12

    13.3


    (1) In any other case, the court may set aside or vary a judgment entered under Part 12 if –


    (a) the defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim; or


    (b) it appears to the court that there is some other good reason why –


    (i) the judgment should be set aside or varied; or


    (ii) the defendant should be allowed to defend the claim.


    (2) In considering whether to set aside or vary a judgment entered under Part 12, the matters to which the court must have regard include whether the person seeking to set aside the judgment made an application to do so promptly.




    Or you need to meet enough of these criteria. Essentially, it's not fair.

  • RedxRedx Forumite
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    Bear in mind that you have not been fined , so lose that word from your vocabulary

    You have an invoice for alleged breach of contract by the driver of the vehicle , a orivat Parking Charge Notice , or PCN

    They were never fines and the word won't appear on any paperwork
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
  • CBaciuCBaciu Forumite
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    Thank you all for the different pieces of advice. I compiled them into a small defence and went on with the trial. The problem is that the judge was not interested in anything else other than knowing if I have proof to show that I was driving the car at the time. It seemed like he was trying to pull my tongue to admit that I was the driver but in all honesty I don't think I was. There is no reason why I would have parked there. My suspicion is that it was my brother and when he asked me who drove the car I did not say it was him as I did not want to throw him under the bus just yet. The reception was very poor and I could barely understand what the man was saying and that made it incredibly difficult to communicate. I have until the 1st of January I think to send in my defence. Does anyone know if I will be receiving this order by post as well since the judge left me with little information. Also, I was asked to pay £243 and send in my defence with proof (if I understood it correctly) but I think this is just to pay for another application. It seems that it is not a question of whether the company served the ticket justly or not but of proving that I was not driving at the time. I can indicate that my brother was working there at the time but I fail to see how this is consistent proof. What should I do?
  • CBaciuCBaciu Forumite
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    Does anyone know if I will be receiving details of what the judge decided today by post? Or can I call the court and have the details communicate to me again? 
  • edited 1 December 2020 at 4:22PM
    RedxRedx Forumite
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    edited 1 December 2020 at 4:22PM
    Yes the court order will arrive in the post

    Follow it to the letter

    You could ask the court to email the paperwork , they may do

    It looks like you have received a set aside so must now pay a figure which may or may not be repaid , we would hope that costs are reserved

    Assuming it's Ben set aside , you must send in the defence to the original court case , plus exhibits etc

    The claimant must either prove who was driving , or comply with POFA to hold a keeper liable

    There is no legal requirement for you to provide it , so if unsure then mention the vehicle has multiple drivers and it could have been anyone , but you do not believe it was you because the location is unfamiliar

    There is nothing strange about default CCJ,s from Northampton , it's the business centre for England and Wales
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
  • CBaciuCBaciu Forumite
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    Redx said:
    There is no legal requirement for you to provide it , so if unsure then mention the vehicle has multiple drivers and it could have been anyone , but you do not believe it was you because the location is unfamiliar
    That is exactly what I said during the hearing but the judge wouldn't have it. He insisted that I tell him who it was that was driving at the time and I said that I have only just now found out about the details of the PCN and it is too sudden for me to know as I have not seen any pictures or know the exact time when it happened.
  • RedxRedx Forumite
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    Redact the court order and show us a scan or picture when it arrives , don't speculate

    Get on with your WS , exhibits and defence
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
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