BITCOIN

Frequentlyhere

My other general recent feelings about Bitcoin is that, for me, it's now moved to the same sort of space that Brexit occupies in my mind.

i.e. it used to be a hot topic of much debate about the merits and otherwise with a genuine sizeable number of people for and against or on the fence,  so I found it very interesting/engaging to debate.

But if you now think that Brexit is going great or that Bitcoin is the future of money, then I've little interest in engaging as I can't imagine what would ever convince you in the light of all available evidence thus far, and I'm largely going to give you the same wide berth as someone shouting secret messages at the sun in the street.

DannyCarey

If its on buttcoin, it must be true!

/s

Frequentlyhere

DannyCarey said:

If its on buttcoin, it must be true!

/s

Yeah, yeah I know but have you actually read it? Is anything they're saying particularly wrong? (If it is, would suggest chipping in there).

DannyCarey

It's not my job to reply to that huge pile of misinformation, convince you and "chip in". 

If you want to learn about LN, this is a good website: https://www.lopp.net/lightning-information.html

Malthusian

Do your own research bro. Ah, just like old times.
You don't get people to provide exit liquidity by saying "that's a massive amount of text [it wasn't] and I refuse to engage with it, here's an even bigger wall of text which I expect you to read".
I decided to break the habit of a lifetime and do some research. Being totally ignorant of Bitcoin and the ways it generates free generational wealth for everyone, I went with the link promisingly titled "Explain it like I'm 5".

Many people believe that Bitcoin is the future for our financial system. But there is a big issue standing in the way of this goal and that is scalability. 
Let me give an example: the payment provider VISA processes on average around 4,000 transactions per second and scale up to a maximum of 65,000. Bitcoin on the other hand can handle up to 7 transactions per second with the current block size of one megabyte... [continues]

Ok, we're four sentences in and there's already been a dozen key words that I wouldn't have understood when I was 5. Or 10. Have these people never met a 5 year old? 
And needless to say none of it disproved the assertions posted by Frequentlyhere. If somebody asserted that "VISA can only handle seven transactions per second" it would be easily disproved within moments by links to reputable sources.

Malthusian

Philosophical question: which would be the most accurate source for information about how the universe came into existence? 
1) r/creationism
2) r/creationistsaredumblol
"Well clearly it's r/creationism, because how could people who just hate on and make fun of others all day be a credible source?"

Frequentlyhere

In this case, I think the reddit poster didn't ideally want to post in the "let's perpetually take the P out of BTC" subreddit, and does have his own far less popular subreddit to view things from a more considered (but still overwhelmingly critical) angle, but ultimately r/buttcoin has a huge number of people who know a lot about it.

It also wouldn't be an option to post on any other pro-BTC reddit, because any dissent from a positive view of BTC results in immediate banishment from the cult subreddit.

But as I've pointed out, if one had actually tried the thread (Danny!) you'll see it's actually quite an indepth and considered exchange with various voices who clearly know what they're talking about. It's not just one crackpot voicing off.

Frequentlyhere

Anyway @DannyCarey I had a look at your website. The 5YO, the 25YO and the FAQ.

It may be buried there somewhere, but I haven't yet seen any reference to any of the very specific issues pointed out by the thread I posted. Or indeed any issues whatsoever, funnily enough!

I mean, just to focus on one element - if for example, it's just not true that LN fails 99% of all transactions over $200, or about a third of the time for any transaction, then that surely needs to feature in an FAQ. Or is this just buttcoiners talking total BS?

edit: OK, I took the next step and actually searched for some of the issues alongside your website creator. I found this pro bitcoin website article.

It's an old article, but (my bold)

"CasaHODL engineer Jameson Lopp, meanwhile countered the criticism saying that the max allowed payment value is currently only around $250 since the network is still in beta.  He added:

The difficulty in making payments over $100 is by design (for safety) and easily changed when developers are confident in the robustness of the network.

Despite the rapid growth of available channels on mainnet Lightning, the likelihood of seeing success for a payment past a certain amount is slim, says Diar quoting Reddit data. In other words, the Lightning Network in its current state can only guarantee a 100% success for transactions no bigger than three cents.

As the source material subsequently noted in an update, the chances of “spending a coffee” successfully between two nodes is around 70%"

Which is exactly what the reddit thread is claiming is the case today, so I assume they're actually right?

Question is,  if it's "easily changed", and it's been 5 years, why on earth haven't they changed it?

silvercue

January was a good month for BTC and Feb is looking decent so far too.  I like.  

Scottex99

I asked one of my traders what he thought and:

[11:12, 16/02/2023]  Equities have been doing well, FED is still raising but expectations is that they will be done with hikes in the next few months. So the market thinks peak rates/bearish conditions will be hit by summer, in which case buying here seems like good value while we are still well off ATH’s. Something bad could still happen in macro and drop us quickly, but I don’t think that would take us sub $10k on BTC or anything.

[11:15, 16/02/2023] There is still a !!!!!! ton of liquidity in the system compared to pre-covid. And the other thing is, who is left to sell? The retail noobs are all rekt or out of the market. Degens are day trading like always. Smart big players are probably net buyers here rather than sellers. So I’d be surprised if we see new lows. 40k BTC by EOY is possible if nothing breaks in Tradfi.

[11:16, 16/02/2023] Loads of cool stuff coming out on-chain as well. Arbitrum has cool stuff being built on it, zkRollups are coming soon, lots of new L1’s etc.

Not entirely sure why it pumped 10% last night but $25K looks decent for now