BITCOIN

Scottex99

Malthusian said:

onthebench said:

HansOndabush said:

Scottex99 said:

deejaybee said:

I'm thinking more long term,  but if i was to take any profit, would stick it on a different flavour(s)

BTC/ETH always a good place to start. Then you can have a look at some of the larger cap altcoins, then into the more degen stuff, then into the highly risky sh1tcoins, if you want. That's how I'd play it.
Years of research and learning out there if you have the inclination, or you can just buy a few coins and leave them in a wallet for half a decade

Or you can just flush some cash down the toilet for real fun.

I've flushed plenty of cash down the metaphorical toilet over past 10 years. If I had used even a fraction of it to buy bitcoin or ether then I'd be a multi-millionaire. 

Or if you'd used a fraction of it to buy a winning lottery ticket. The National Lottery has made far more people into multi-millionaires (usually at least two a week for a couple of decades) than Bitcoin. (Most people who cashed a seven-figure fortune out of Bitcoin had put an even larger fortune in; that is how the mathematics of a zero-sum money game work.)

Lottery, fine yeah.

BTC, nope. There's about a 3 week window now at a guess in the history of the asset where you could have bought and be down right now. i.e anywhere in $57-65k range. If you bought anytime in the last 10.9 years, you're up

Malthusian

Scottex99 said:

Lottery, fine yeah.

BTC, nope. There's about a 3 week window now at a guess in the history of the asset where you could have bought and be down right now. i.e anywhere in $57-65k range. If you bought anytime in the last 10.9 years, you're up

Punters' money in == punters' money out.

If someone sells their Bitcoin at a profit for $57k then the punter who bought it at $57k has to sell it for even more than that to not lose money. It is mathematically impossible for everyone to sell their Bitcoin for more than they paid.

For someone to make a million pounds out of Bitcoin other people have to lose a million pounds.

A hell of a lot of people bought Bitcoin in that supposedly short three week window and are now sitting on losses, that's why the price was at $60k+.

Scottex99

In a simple world, but there's leveraged trading, derivatives, staking etc etc etc.
Keeping it simple, BTC was 20k in December 2017, it took till December 2020 to get there again. So if you bought BTC ANY TIME between 2010 and 2020, you are MINIMUM 2.5x up right now

naedanger

Malthusian said:

Scottex99 said:

Lottery, fine yeah.

BTC, nope. There's about a 3 week window now at a guess in the history of the asset where you could have bought and be down right now. i.e anywhere in $57-65k range. If you bought anytime in the last 10.9 years, you're up

Punters' money in == punters' money out.

If someone sells their Bitcoin at a profit for $57k then the punter who bought it at $57k has to sell it for even more than that to not lose money. It is mathematically impossible for everyone to sell their Bitcoin for more than they paid.

For someone to make a million pounds out of Bitcoin other people have to lose a million pounds.

A hell of a lot of people bought Bitcoin in that supposedly short three week window and are now sitting on losses, that's why the price was at $60k+.

Regarding the mathematics, is Bitcoin any different from gold?
Currently everyone could, in theory, be sitting on profits on paper. (Whenever the price is at an all time high no-one can be sitting on paper losses.)

Onestepcloser

I personally don't own bitcoin but have invested about 4.5k in alt coins since December and as of today I'm up 500% probably more if I was to calculate the interest from staking.  Crypto for the most part is definitely not a scam , although volatile if you choose projects with solid technology  gains should continue just the same way it would with the stock market.

HansOndabush

Onestepcloser said:

I personally don't own bitcoin but have invested about 4.5k in alt coins since December and as of today I'm up 500% probably more if I was to calculate the interest from staking.  Crypto for the most part is definitely not a scam , although volatile if you choose projects with solid technology  gains should continue just the same way it would with the stock market.

That is so completely not true. You don't seem to realise that stock markets go up due to the work done by companies to produce goods and services which increases the value of the companies such that they can pay larger dividends and investors are therefore willing to pay more for the shares. That is completely different to crypto currencies that produce nothing and have limited use and which cannot increase value on their own. Crypto price might be increasing for now but that is only due to other punters betting a higher stake on it. If you are making 500% then someone else is or will be losing it as Malthusian has tried to explain and which you clearly fail to grasp.

Onestepcloser

HansOndabush said:

Onestepcloser said:

I personally don't own bitcoin but have invested about 4.5k in alt coins since December and as of today I'm up 500% probably more if I was to calculate the interest from staking.  Crypto for the most part is definitely not a scam , although volatile if you choose projects with solid technology  gains should continue just the same way it would with the stock market.

That is so completely not true. You don't seem to realise that stock markets go up due to the work done by companies to produce goods and services which increases the value of the companies such that they can pay larger dividends and investors are therefore willing to pay more for the shares. That is completely different to crypto currencies that produce nothing and have limited use and which cannot increase value on their own. Crypto price might be increasing for now but that is only due to other punters betting a higher stake on it. If you are making 500% then someone else is or will be losing it as Malthusian has tried to explain and which you clearly fail to grasp.

Are you for real! Go and look up Theta and the companies invested in it such as Sony, Samsung and Google. Then read up on the deal that Cardano has just finalized with the Ethiopian government to give every student a verifiable identification not mention another deal with world mobile that is changing lives daily for many people.  May I also point out I'm earning a a minimum of 5% - 15% interest on some projects I'm invested in.  So for you to say they don't provide a service it's you that can't grasp what crypto is about.

Onestepcloser

Solenoid's said:

HansOndabush said:

Scottex99 said:

deejaybee said:

I'm thinking more long term,  but if i was to take any profit, would stick it on a different flavour(s)

BTC/ETH always a good place to start. Then you can have a look at some of the larger cap altcoins, then into the more degen stuff, then into the highly risky sh1tcoins, if you want. That's how I'd play it.
Years of research and learning out there if you have the inclination, or you can just buy a few coins and leave them in a wallet for half a decade

Or you can just flush some cash down the toilet for real fun.

Lol thats an idea. I put £900 yesterday even though I was against it myself. I gained last night £50 and this morning woke up with £70 loss. Its risky but do your research. Bitcoin is too risky in my opinion. And dont invest in money that you can't afford to lose.

Can I ask you why bitcoin is too risky? As according to coin market cap and coin gecko bitcoin is up over 400% in the last year, seems a good investment to me. People need to treat crypto like any other investment and DCA into it and hold for the long term cause if you think your going to get rich in a few weeks or months your going lose unless very lucky just the same as any other investments.

Scottex99

HansOndabush said:

Onestepcloser said:

I personally don't own bitcoin but have invested about 4.5k in alt coins since December and as of today I'm up 500% probably more if I was to calculate the interest from staking.  Crypto for the most part is definitely not a scam , although volatile if you choose projects with solid technology  gains should continue just the same way it would with the stock market.

That is so completely not true. You don't seem to realise that stock markets go up due to the work done by companies to produce goods and services which increases the value of the companies such that they can pay larger dividends and investors are therefore willing to pay more for the shares. That is completely different to crypto currencies that produce nothing and have limited use and which cannot increase value on their own. Crypto price might be increasing for now but that is only due to other punters betting a higher stake on it. If you are making 500% then someone else is or will be losing it as Malthusian has tried to explain and which you clearly fail to grasp.

Crypto is like the stock market on steroids, fine.
But does it really make sense that Tesla is worth more than all the other US car companies combined? How many cars do they sell? Or that Apple is worth more than some countries? How good are their products really?

Trying to claim that the share price is exactly correlated to the profits and output of certain companies, and then use that as a reason why crypto somehow produces nothing in comparison, is just incredibly short-sighted. 

Malthusian's point also doesn't do it for me. How is it any different to the stock market? The market(s) determine the price for everything. Are we crying about how much the other people are losing when we sell stocks at a 5x profit too? I don't see how it's relevant at all.

Onestepcloser

[Deleted User] said:

Onestepcloser said:

HansOndabush said:

Onestepcloser said:

I personally don't own bitcoin but have invested about 4.5k in alt coins since December and as of today I'm up 500% probably more if I was to calculate the interest from staking.  Crypto for the most part is definitely not a scam , although volatile if you choose projects with solid technology  gains should continue just the same way it would with the stock market.

That is so completely not true. You don't seem to realise that stock markets go up due to the work done by companies to produce goods and services which increases the value of the companies such that they can pay larger dividends and investors are therefore willing to pay more for the shares. That is completely different to crypto currencies that produce nothing and have limited use and which cannot increase value on their own. Crypto price might be increasing for now but that is only due to other punters betting a higher stake on it. If you are making 500% then someone else is or will be losing it as Malthusian has tried to explain and which you clearly fail to grasp.

Are you for real! Go and look up Theta and the companies invested in it such as Sony, Samsung and Google. Then read up on the deal that Cardano has just finalized with the Ethiopian government to give every student a verifiable identification not mention another deal with world mobile that is changing lives daily for many people.  May I also point out I'm earning a a minimum of 5% - 15% interest on some projects I'm invested in.  So for you to say they don't provide a service it's you that can't grasp what crypto is about.

How is Theta providing billions in value to people? In reality aren't just a few streaming sites that barely anyone uses running on it? And by "invest", don't you just mean that someone at some big firms run nodes with some tokens staked on it? Not really an investment in the technology imo.

These examples are sideshows anyway. The vast majority of money poured into crypto isn't being put to work in any productive way, nor used for their stated purposes e.g. currency, store of value, identification or whatever. They are vehicles for speculation.

You are so far out if you think theta is about just a few streaming services running on it and in regards to those companies investing, to run a validator node they must own 10million theta, granted not a lot of money with those companies finances but to ordinary people it's more than " someone at some big firms run nodes with some tokens staked on it".  There is No point in arguing anymore if you're not interested in crypto that's fine but to assume there aren't proper companies behind the majority of crpypo projects that provide a valuable service is naive at best.