BITCOIN

Scottex99

darren232002 said:

Malthusian said:

Not that scarce. It's an asset that is going to lambo moon and go to $100,000 at some point in the near future and maybe $1 million beyond that. Yet millions of bros will happily sell you one for $41,000. That's not what scarce means.

Haha. Nobody is going to sell you a Bitcoin for $41k in the current environment. Good chance we never go below $45k again actually.

IvanOpinion said:

I also think that central banks will eventually come out with one or more 'sanctioned' national/international cryptocurrencies at some point and that will see the demise of many that currently seem to be in favour ..... but as I said I don't really understand them.

Maybe when it falls back below £10K again I might dip my toe in the water and have a flutter.

CBDCs are terrible and simply evidence that the central banks have a complete misunderstanding of whats happening. They don't solve any of the issues that BTC does because they can still 'print' more of their digital money at zero cost, just like they can with fiat currency. Plus, lets factor in the inevitable problems with state issued programmable money... Stimulus in the future is that you get £2k in your bank account but if it isnt spent by X date then it evaporates. Perhaps they issue stimulus only to people that have < Y value in their wallet. Or maybe they just go the whole hog and if they don't like you and/or your ideas your CBDC wallet is simply wiped out to zero or are no longer acceptable by merchants.

I think there is approximately zero chance that Bitcoin goes below $10k ever again. In fact, if it ever went back below $20k my beliefs are invalidated and I'd be selling everything I have (at a healthy profit still btw).

moneywow1 said:

Can't wait for the big crash.

200%+ CAGR for over a decade and you're still saying this. At this point its not based on rational thought, its simply a psychological bias. FYI I bought and sold Bitcoin in 2013 and 2014. The ability to change your mind given new information is an important attribute.

benbay001 said:

Further edit: Did you know the US banned gold as an investment glass from the 1930s until the 1970s? And the result was that the price halved, adjusted for inflation.

Give me one reason why the same couldnt happen to BTC?

Because game theory means it will hurt them more than it would ever help them.

Firstly, its owned by millions of their citizens and several US companies have billions of it on their balance sheets. You think attempting to wipe that value to zero is just going to be accepted by those people/companies? Do you think this is a logical action for a government that has overwhelmingly chosen to preserve value in business for the last two decades? Do you think it is a logical decision for a government that has moved towards recognising and legislating around this space in the last decade?

Secondly, logistics - you can't ban it unless you turn off the internet. You can ban yourself from the network, but that's going to make the country significantly poorer.

Thirdly, if you try to target fiat on and off ramps - I can walk across a border with my entire net worth in my head. If a country bans Bitcoin, people will move abroad to my favourable places (I actually no longer live in the UK anyway for much the same reason; I'm paid far more and have a better quality of life abroad and think the UK is doomed over a long time frame). This matters because the people that own Bitcoin tend to be STEM educated, so its a brain drain of the highest order.

Fourthly, look at the people appointed by the BIden administration - mainly pro Bitcoin with extensive history in the space (Gensler and Pierce come to mind to start with). Fifthly, if we look through history, every country that has tried to ban bitcoin has seen a premium for it, increased demand and has pretty much given up attempting to limit is use (most recently, Turkey went from attempting to ban it to legislating around it).

Bitcoin is lindy. The longer it exists, the longer it is likely to exist. Believing Bitcoin can be banned just shows an overestimation of the power and competence of governments and an underestimation of the technical difficulty of actually doing so.

HansOndabush said:

Bitcoin is not a company, does not produce anything or pay dividends, you can't use it in industry or make anything from it like you can with gold,

Only a fraction of the value of gold derives from its actual use cases. The majority of its value is its monetary premium. Bitcoin does pretty much everything that gold does, but it does it far better so in time that monetary premium accrues to Bitcoin and not gold.

The hilarious thing is this entire thread is about Bitcoin and how people still can't wrap their heads around it, but most people in the space are way more interested and see far more potential in other crypto assets. I often think that crypto will separate those that can think and reason abstractly or from first principles from those that can not. 

HansOndabush said:

The only way that Scottex99 can profit is by the fact that some greater fool is willing to pay a higher price for the Bitcoin tokens that he bought at a lower price. i.e. the latecomers to the party are paying the profits of the early arrivers; is that not the nature of a ponzi scheme?

As I've stated before, we don't need MSE'rs to buy our bags. Its a $1T asset, so whatever people from this forum throw at it is not going to move it in any meaningful way. Tesla, Microstrategy, Massmutual, Square et al have bought billions of $ of BTC. Chances are Elon probably has a better idea of managing money than you do. Chances are that he consulted with several people before that purchase; people who all also probably have a better chance of managing money than you do.

At this point, institutions are buying for their own treasuries as well as financial institutions advising high net worth clients to put 1-5% of their portfolio in to BTC. A Bitcoin ETF is probably a certainty at some point this year which will further improve liquidity. As it continues to go up, larger funds will become more involved (some funds have strict limits on the minimum size of the asset they can invest in). 4 years ago, being pro-BTC was a career risk (see JPMorgan CEO threatening to sack anyone he caught buying it) but now there is a pretty good argument that a fiduciary would not be doing their job correctly if they ignore an asset that has 200% CAGR over the last decade with the best Sharpe ratio of any asset over that same timeframe.  JPMorgan now has a $145k price target for Bitcoin btw.

Haha I love it when you come in with the eloquence. Doubt it will make a diff although a couple people DM'd me for some more info so there's two people who could maybe change their lives.

Although that's about the same number of people who reported me for hurt feeling, lol.

At this point is must just be pure stubbornness that stops people form watching a documentary, reading an article or watching a you tube video to start that research into crypto.

I was out in Gib this week, all noobs but 6-7 people on the table all had crypto (v small - medium bags). All asking me questions, excited to tell me what research they'd done about X asset or Y protocol. Asking me about security/staking/transfers etc etc. None of driven by me, just pure interest on their side.

That's why I dont get from people here.  

Scottex99

deejaybee said:

Hi,

I'm considering dipping my toe into Bitcoin..

I live in a small market town in DEvon, and funny enough they have had a Bitcoin ATM in the local Tourist office since 2018 ish.

I popped in there today to ask some questions,they could only give me some basics, as it is actually operated by "ALPHAVEND"

They told me i needed to have a Bitcoin wallet, so that i could scan a QR code, then follow on-screen instructions and basically feed it banknotes. Its currently set at £100 minimum , and there is a £5 charge per transaction - i'm not sure whether there is a seperate % commission fee..

The manageress said that someone bought ONE Bitcoin for £5K back in the day, which must have taken a while to get the notes in.

So, anyone had any dealings/experience with ALPHAVEND ATMs ?  Which wallet would be suitable for use with them ?

Ideally i would keep wallet on my Android mobile.

Thanks

We just bought an ATM actually, with branding of the firm, not set it up yet.

Any reason why you specifically want to use cash? There's likely other charges to consider, a cash ATM is probably the most expensive way to get in.

If you have UK banking, try Coinbase (Coinbase Pro better and cheaper), Swissborg, Zumo, or a multitude of other apps/exchanges were you wire in GBP and buy from.

deejaybee

Thanks Scottex99,

I didnt specifically want to use cash, just thought it was convenient as the ATM is 10 mins walk from home, but on the other hand i wouldnt want unnecessary overheads on any purchases.

I have UK banking, so is Coinbase a wallet, or an exchange, or both ?

underground99

deejaybee said:

So, anyone had any dealings/experience with ALPHAVEND ATMs ?  Which wallet would be suitable for use with them ?

Ideally i would keep wallet on my Android mobile.

If you want to buy cryptocurrency simply use a reputable exchange online where you can see the price of real live trades. The 'ATM' is not going to sell you a physical coin, so there is no point trekking to a tourist office with a wodge of banknotes unless you're a money launderer or terrorist financier.

A tourist office or retailer will borrow a machine from Alphavend and host the machine at no cost as a point of curiosity in their premises and split the fivers of commission that the machine earns. When you are standing in the tourist office wondering whether the price on screen is a fair price or not (as it may have moved by $1k in the time out took you to walk from one side of the village to the other), you are only going to know the 'going rate' if you look it up on your phone on some reputable exchanges, at which point you realise you could have just used those exchanges without leaving the house and paying commissions to use a machine that the tourist officer does not really understand.

If something goes wrong, the tourist officer is not going to give you in depth technical support. So you might as well be using an online exchange with a customer support function.

deejaybee

Thanks underground99 - is there a reputable exchange that you would recommend ?

Scottex99

deejaybee said:

Thanks Scottex99,

I didnt specifically want to use cash, just thought it was convenient as the ATM is 10 mins walk from home, but on the other hand i wouldnt want unnecessary overheads on any purchases.

I have UK banking, so is Coinbase a wallet, or an exchange, or both ?

Coinbase, Coinbase Pro, Swissborg (personal fave), Zumo, Gemini, probably a few others. In theory you buy form there and then you also buy a Ledger or Trezor hardware device and store the coins safely offline in cold storage

TimSynths

deejaybee said:

Thanks Scottex99,

I didnt specifically want to use cash, just thought it was convenient as the ATM is 10 mins walk from home, but on the other hand i wouldnt want unnecessary overheads on any purchases.

I have UK banking, so is Coinbase a wallet, or an exchange, or both ?

I started with my first £100 on Jan 1st, used Coinbase after watching the excellent "Damien talks money" vid-

(84) We NEED to talk about Bitcoin! - YouTube

Coinbase is dead easy to use and I now use their Pro version for most of my buys as its a lot cheaper- looks a bit daunting but there are loads of how to vids on youtube to hold your hand.

I started with BTC in Jan and then added ETH a few days later. I've since used Binance and Bitforex. I've had lots of different coins, best so far was "Bake"- I cashed 1/2 out on Wednesday this week, it was +301% from when I splashed £1k on it on March 7th and moved the profit into ETH and BTC. Everything has made me money so far except my OMI tokens, bought approx £2.8k on March 18th and today its worth £1672 so lost on paper £1205 (-42%) and its been as much as -50% but although not nice to see im not panicked, its a start up and i'm confident within a year it will be 10x the price I paid for it.

Overall its been great fun, I would have laughed at anyone (like most posters in this thread) that suggested Bitcoin to me before this year, now im balls in and have spent £6,600 so far and as of this moment the fund value is £8990 (spend was £3600 by end of Jan and i added another £3k on Wednesday this week).

Good luck and enjoy it!

Scottex99

TimSynths said:

deejaybee said:

Thanks Scottex99,

I didnt specifically want to use cash, just thought it was convenient as the ATM is 10 mins walk from home, but on the other hand i wouldnt want unnecessary overheads on any purchases.

I have UK banking, so is Coinbase a wallet, or an exchange, or both ?

I started with my first £100 on Jan 1st, used Coinbase after watching the excellent "Damien talks money" vid-

(84) We NEED to talk about Bitcoin! - YouTube

Coinbase is dead easy to use and I now use their Pro version for most of my buys as its a lot cheaper- looks a bit daunting but there are loads of how to vids on youtube to hold your hand.

I started with BTC in Jan and then added ETH a few days later. I've since used Binance and Bitforex. I've had lots of different coins, best so far was "Bake"- I cashed 1/2 out on Wednesday this week, it was +301% from when I splashed £1k on it on March 7th and moved the profit into ETH and BTC. Everything has made me money so far except my OMI tokens, bought approx £2.8k on March 18th and today its worth £1672 so lost on paper £1205 (-42%) and its been as much as -50% but although not nice to see im not panicked, its a start up and i'm confident within a year it will be 10x the price I paid for it.

Overall its been great fun, I would have laughed at anyone (like most posters in this thread) that suggested Bitcoin to me before this year, now im balls in and have spent £6,600 so far and as of this moment the fund value is £8990 (spend was £3600 by end of Jan and i added another £3k on Wednesday this week).

Good luck and enjoy it!

I can't even remember where I have my OMI haha.

Be careful with Tier 2/3 exchanges like Bitforex. There's counterparty risk wherever you don't control your own coins but the more obscure and small the exchange is, the higher the risk imo.

I've got assets in Hotbit, might never see them again and they are a pretty big player. I knew the risks the whole time though, its on me if I've lost money.

GL with the trading/hodling

TimSynths

Scottex99 said:

TimSynths said:

deejaybee said:

Thanks Scottex99,

I didnt specifically want to use cash, just thought it was convenient as the ATM is 10 mins walk from home, but on the other hand i wouldnt want unnecessary overheads on any purchases.

I have UK banking, so is Coinbase a wallet, or an exchange, or both ?

I started with my first £100 on Jan 1st, used Coinbase after watching the excellent "Damien talks money" vid-

(84) We NEED to talk about Bitcoin! - YouTube

Coinbase is dead easy to use and I now use their Pro version for most of my buys as its a lot cheaper- looks a bit daunting but there are loads of how to vids on youtube to hold your hand.

I started with BTC in Jan and then added ETH a few days later. I've since used Binance and Bitforex. I've had lots of different coins, best so far was "Bake"- I cashed 1/2 out on Wednesday this week, it was +301% from when I splashed £1k on it on March 7th and moved the profit into ETH and BTC. Everything has made me money so far except my OMI tokens, bought approx £2.8k on March 18th and today its worth £1672 so lost on paper £1205 (-42%) and its been as much as -50% but although not nice to see im not panicked, its a start up and i'm confident within a year it will be 10x the price I paid for it.

Overall its been great fun, I would have laughed at anyone (like most posters in this thread) that suggested Bitcoin to me before this year, now im balls in and have spent £6,600 so far and as of this moment the fund value is £8990 (spend was £3600 by end of Jan and i added another £3k on Wednesday this week).

Good luck and enjoy it!

I can't even remember where I have my OMI haha.

Be careful with Tier 2/3 exchanges like Bitforex. There's counterparty risk wherever you don't control your own coins but the more obscure and small the exchange is, the higher the risk imo.

I've got assets in Hotbit, might never see them again and they are a pretty big player. I knew the risks the whole time though, its on me if I've lost money.

GL with the trading/hodling

I agree- as soon as my purchase was made they were whipped off to Trust wallet instantly, did like the excitement of using Bitforex though, it felt dirty! Coinbase pro is my favourite but have done some swapping around on Binance this morning and getting used to it too- just another small cheeky purchase of ETH. Im hoping to be in a position to clear the mortgage a bit early or spunk it on a Lambo.....

User232002

Scottex99 said:

At this point is must just be pure stubbornness that stops people form watching a documentary, reading an article or watching a you tube video to start that research into crypto.

I was out in Gib this week, all noobs but 6-7 people on the table all had crypto (v small - medium bags). All asking me questions, excited to tell me what research they'd done about X asset or Y protocol. Asking me about security/staking/transfers etc etc. None of driven by me, just pure interest on their side.

That's why I dont get from people here.  

Its absolutely stubbornness. They've planted their stake in the sand, married themselves to whatever FUD they choose and aren't willing to revisit it. The real frustration is those that tell you they have researched it, they really do understand it and then throw some FUD at you that either they lack the ability to truly understand either way (ie. quantum computers can kill bitcoin) or has been debunked about 8 years ago (ie. no intrinsic value).

I have received some good advice from this website over the last decade, so I continue to live in hope that one or two people will see this thread, understand the arguments and embark on their own journey down the rabbit hole. Alas, those people that do not will be buying the bags of early adopters at some point in the distant future. Choosing to buy or not buy Bitcoin at that point will be an illusion.