BITCOIN

Zola.

I watched the Bitcoin bit on 1.5x just to get through it... he is being intellectually dishonest by focusing on Bitcoin's transaction speed vs Visa, whilst completely ignoring the Lightning Network and other subsequent layers which will be built on the base Bitcoin protocol. 

I do agree that NFTs in their form are a complete farce. As is pretty much everything else thats not Bitcoin.... 

User232002

bugbyte_2 said:

Really couldn't have put it better myself.

Go on then - just for banter - what value does Bitcoin add to society? (Real value that normal people would benefit from, not some hypothetical at some point in the future collapse of fiat or pretending your average Nigerian is eternally grateful to Bitcoins existence). 

About 5 pages back I was having an argument with someone because posters leave and then other posters come in and ask the same old questions which makes it incredibly frustrating having to explain everything all over again. He has now left and here you are asking; "What value does Bitcoin add to society?" which has clearly not been addressed in 180 odd pages already.... I've made two long posts in the NFT thread within the last two days containing 11 different points, and those were simply just the ones I highlighted because someone attempted to say that I'd given no reasons in a random post.

Specifically on the topic of housing since that is what was originally mentioned; If a societies money is a weak store of value, other assets such as equities and RE get financialised as SoV's instead. This puts a SoV premium on housing similar to how Gold is priced above its industrial use case, thereby raising the price of housing for all. This, as we have seen, is particularly difficult for younger generations and creates inter generational strife.

adindas

Zola. said:

bugbyte_2 said:

Quite a good article on the climate problem around Bitcoin. 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jan/30/how-do-we-solve-bitcoins-carbon-problem

Quite balanced I thought. (sorry for bringing it up but it is quite important to some of us who don't want our kids to cook to a crisp).

Highest rated comment:

Quantum computing might sort it all out within a few days, first by mining the 3000 or so remaining Bitcoins, then by stealing the largest wallets of those who don't have quantum computers. I expect it'll all be worthless within hours of the first theft.

Next highest rated comment

Appears to be awfully expensive to keep the idiots happy.

Literally stupid comments by Guardian readers. If Quantum computers do somehow hack Bitcoin's network - the strongest computing network ever created, it will already have hacked every bank, every government website, etc.

Also if quantum computing does get remotely close to being a realistic threat, bitcoin's encryption can be updated well in advance..

It's an incredibly silly argument by people who haven't got a clue what they are talking about.  Its the same parroted rubbish people blurt out that they heard some idiot say down the pub once....

Lol I cannot stop chuckling!!! 

But anyway, it is a good fantasy movie to make, so people are more creative with their illusion with the new world order. We probably need to start thinking to live in Mars??

I will be worry more about terorist hackers using quantum computer to crack Russian Nuclear command centre and destroy the world.

Zola.

https://twitter.com/saylor/status/1488498422495817728

How much is enough?! 

Malthusian

Zola. said:

Literally stupid comments by Guardian readers. If Quantum computers do somehow hack Bitcoin's network - the strongest computing network ever created, it will already have hacked every bank, every government website, etc.

If quantum computers were developed that can hack Bitcoin and every bank and government website and steal everyone's money, there are two possible scenarios:

1) The social contract endures, and banking records are reconstructed on pen and paper from whatever permanent records have survived, like my monthly RBS statements. I can prove my account balance in a court of law and RBS legally still owes me my money, even if some guy with a quantum computer raided my account. The Government prints enough money to cover the losses to quantum hackers before the banks pulled the plug, nationalises banks, and does whatever else is necessary to maintain the value of money. People who held deposit accounts still have their money, even if it's worth less. The world is much poorer and banking is now as time-consuming and tedious as it was in the 1800s, but most people can still buy food. As can people who held cash under the floorboards.

Those who hold Bitcoin, by contrast, have nothing. All their tokens are belong to haxors and they have no paper records or legal proof of ownership to say otherwise. Welcome to being sovereign citizens.

2) The social contract breaks down, the economy collapses and people resort to barter with whatever they've got, or shotguns and pitchforks. Those who hold Bitcoin still have nothing, same as everybody else.

So I'm not seeing the stupid comment here. The risk of being a sovereign citizen and rejecting any legal protection over your wealth  is real.

Also if quantum computing does get remotely close to being a realistic threat, bitcoin's encryption can be updated well in advance..

Providing that the first person to invent a strong enough quantum computer is a bro who then immediately uses it to strengthen Bitcoin's encryption before someone else invents a quantum computer and steals it. Someone like the Russian or Chinese or US governments. Or the mafia. Or anyone with more incentive to steal and/or destroy cryptocurrency than to protect it.

The only thing half decent about that article is that they actually accept that Bitcoin only uses 0.1% of global energy consumption...

It uses 0.1% of global energy consumption solely because that energy use consists of a few hundred thousand bros trading points between each other and hoping that number go up. Not because it is a particularly energy efficient way of doing nothing much.

Zola.

Malthusian said:

Zola. said:

Literally stupid comments by Guardian readers. If Quantum computers do somehow hack Bitcoin's network - the strongest computing network ever created, it will already have hacked every bank, every government website, etc.

If quantum computers were developed that can hack Bitcoin and every bank and government website and steal everyone's money, there are two possible scenarios:

1) The social contract endures, and banking records are reconstructed on pen and paper from whatever permanent records have survived, like my monthly RBS statements. I can prove my account balance in a court of law and RBS legally still owes me my money, even if some guy with a quantum computer raided my account. The Government prints enough money to cover the losses to quantum hackers before the banks pulled the plug, nationalises banks, and does whatever else is necessary to maintain the value of money. People who held deposit accounts still have their money, even if it's worth less. The world is much poorer and banking is now as time-consuming and tedious as it was in the 1800s, but most people can still buy food. As can people who held cash under the floorboards.

Those who hold Bitcoin, by contrast, have nothing. All their tokens are belong to haxors and they have no paper records or legal proof of ownership to say otherwise. Welcome to being sovereign citizens.

2) The social contract breaks down, the economy collapses and people resort to barter with whatever they've got, or shotguns and pitchforks. Those who hold Bitcoin still have nothing, same as everybody else.

So I'm not seeing the stupid comment here. The risk of being a sovereign citizen and rejecting any legal protection over your wealth  is real.

Also if quantum computing does get remotely close to being a realistic threat, bitcoin's encryption can be updated well in advance..

Providing that the first person to invent a strong enough quantum computer is a bro who then immediately uses it to strengthen Bitcoin's encryption before someone else invents a quantum computer and steals it. Someone like the Russian or Chinese or US governments. Or the mafia. Or anyone with more incentive to steal and/or destroy cryptocurrency than to protect it.

The only thing half decent about that article is that they actually accept that Bitcoin only uses 0.1% of global energy consumption...

It uses 0.1% of global energy consumption solely because that energy use consists of a few hundred thousand bros trading points between each other and hoping that number go up. Not because it is a particularly energy efficient way of doing nothing much.

The quantum computing theory is not even worth discussing as it's not seen as a realistic threat any time soon. 

In El Salvador alone there are 2.3 MILLION users of the Chivo Lightning wallet, processing daily averages of 65,000 transactions per second.  Those stats are from September 2021 - so likely significantly higher now. 

You can send money using the Bitcoin rails on twitter right now - open to Billions

Mobile payments provider Cash App has announced that it will introduce Lightning to its 36 million customers in the U.S. and the U.K.

etc.

Yet idiots still try to argue Bitcoin cant scale or be used for transactions as its too slow.

bugbyte_2

Zola. said:

https://twitter.com/saylor/status/1488498422495817728

How much is enough?! 

To be fair that is seriously impressive. Is it one person or a collaborative?

A question I would like to know is it new money or recycled money - i.e. did they sell at a high and buy back in now? and this isn't meant to rile anyone but if they did sell at a high would such a move create the slide which enabled them to buy back in at a low? and if so, would this be a classic dump and pump where we are in the pump part of the cycle?

Zola.

These are bought by MicroStrategy, which is Michael Saylor's business intelligence company. He is adding the Bitcoin purchases to the company balance sheet. He has a huge personal stash also. He is irresponsibly long Bitcoin. He has bought MS shares back off people who disagreed with the Bitcoin strategy, sold them, bought Bitcoin with it, taken out loans to buy more Bitcoin etc. He is either going to become one of the richest men in history, or famous for absolutely decimating his company. Time will tell I suppose. 

They started buying in 2020.. their suspected bitcoin wallet address are well known, very public... He claims they are never going to sell and will use it as collateral, as he appears to truly believe it is going to change the world. I dont know if or how he manages to do any work for Microstrategy as he appears to be never off podcasts, news stations interviews, etc. 

He is a tech visionary, prolific business man, written tech books, sees things before others do, e.g. he bought loads of domain names before anyone else thought to do so (such as michael.com, voice.com, alarm.com, hope.com) - he sold voice.com for $30m. 

Whilst there is no guarantee he wont sell some or all, at some stage, to be that long is quite a statement. 

Cus

When someone who paid a lot of his own money to close the fraud case against him by the authorities, what he does later is not important to me.

Zola.

Good document from Fidelity

https://www.fidelitydigitalassets.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/FDAS/bitcoin-first.pdf