BITCOIN

Scottex99

Ha ha I caught the first vid.  I liked that one

Merry Christmas to ALL who post here, very interesting discussions on both sides and lots of help given out too.  Now if you'll excuse me I need to go and get some cash out of a machine for Christmas

Agreed, for the most part, it can be a good discussion, although a lot of the same points keep getting made on both sides. I think this will be an epic thread to look back on in around 2025/6, especially after the next halving. I hope MSE doesn't burn this thread... I am sure there will be lots to discuss between now and then and if we keep it going it'll be funny to see how opinions change...

Have a nice Christmas all !!
Not too early to open a bottle of red is it?

Will be a great read for sure. Many told you so's to come... but from what side? 

Zola.

bugbyte_2 said:

Happy Christmas!

Genuine question - If cost and speed of transaction are a plus for bitcoin as implied by the comments about vampire banks, how come it has cost between $1.78 and $62 for each transaction this year? Secondly, if Bitcoin is adapted as  everyone's go to currency, will it have to have the same anti money laundering checks which society deem necessary?

Those would be transactions on the 'slow' base layer. 

Transactions on the Lightning network (a layer two solution) , which would be used for the likes of everyday purchases are thousands of a penny in transaction fees per transaction. 

[Deleted User]

Merry Christmas everyone,

Over the last couple of months, I was reading entire thread from the beginning for never-ending amusement.

annabanana82 said:

I hope no real opinion on BTC, but I don't feel I've missed the boat and have no regrets on not holding any.

(that's a good one!) How knowing that you missed the boat (by thousands of percent) makes you fell that you didn't missed it? That's beyond me.

My condolences.😭😂

Scottex99

bugbyte_2 said:

Happy Christmas!

Genuine question - If cost and speed of transaction are a plus for bitcoin as implied by the comments about vampire banks, how come it has cost between $1.78 and $62 for each transaction this year? Secondly, if Bitcoin is adapted as  everyone's go to currency, will it have to have the same anti money laundering checks which society deem necessary?

Costs changes depending on how busy the network is but it's not related to the USD size of the transfer you are doing. 

I just moved 0.35 BTC from a wallet app to an exchange and paid 0.0005 BTC for the fee. Approx 20 quid. I could have moved 100.35 BTC and it would have been the same fee. (in this case determined by the app and they'll have set it high enough to cover their network cost, in general).

There is no KYC or AML for BTC. It's decentralised. I could have moved that 0.35 BTC to any of millions of wallets in the world and nobody can stop me. There is however checks, regs, tax etc to consider if/when you off ramp those coins into fiat and try to credit the money to your bank

eskbanker

Scottex99 said:

There is no KYC or AML for BTC. It's decentralised. I could have moved that 0.35 BTC to any of millions of wallets in the world and nobody can stop me. There is however checks, regs, tax etc to consider if/when you off ramp those coins into fiat and try to credit the money to your bank

The decentralisation and lack of control are obviously often cited as advantages of the technology and its implementation, but in the specific context of adoption as an actual currency, the prospect of recipients inadvertently being on the wrong end of the proceeds of crime surely has to be a negative factor?  Maybe that isn't a significant issue in El Salvador, but I'd have thought it would hinder acceptability in more developed economies....

Zola.

[Deleted User] said:

Merry Christmas everyone,

Over the last couple of months, I was reading entire thread from the beginning for never-ending amusement.

annabanana82 said:

I hope no real opinion on BTC, but I don't feel I've missed the boat and have no regrets on not holding any.

(that's a good one!) How knowing that you missed the boat (by thousands of percent) makes you fell that you didn't missed it? That's beyond me.

My condolences.😭😂

You definitely live up to your username sir to have done that. 

Zola.

eskbanker said:

Scottex99 said:

There is no KYC or AML for BTC. It's decentralised. I could have moved that 0.35 BTC to any of millions of wallets in the world and nobody can stop me. There is however checks, regs, tax etc to consider if/when you off ramp those coins into fiat and try to credit the money to your bank

The decentralisation and lack of control are obviously often cited as advantages of the technology and its implementation, but in the specific context of adoption as an actual currency, the prospect of recipients inadvertently being on the wrong end of the proceeds of crime surely has to be a negative factor?  Maybe that isn't a significant issue in El Salvador, but I'd have thought it would hinder acceptability in more developed economies....

Oh yes, no criminal has ever received a massive briefcase of untraceable cash before. 

eskbanker

Zola. said:

eskbanker said:

Scottex99 said:

There is no KYC or AML for BTC. It's decentralised. I could have moved that 0.35 BTC to any of millions of wallets in the world and nobody can stop me. There is however checks, regs, tax etc to consider if/when you off ramp those coins into fiat and try to credit the money to your bank

The decentralisation and lack of control are obviously often cited as advantages of the technology and its implementation, but in the specific context of adoption as an actual currency, the prospect of recipients inadvertently being on the wrong end of the proceeds of crime surely has to be a negative factor?  Maybe that isn't a significant issue in El Salvador, but I'd have thought it would hinder acceptability in more developed economies....

Oh yes, no criminal has ever received a massive briefcase of untraceable cash before. 

Not sure if that was actually intended to address the question, but the world of KYC/AML has made large quantities of cash much less acceptable than before for mainstream use, so that doesn't really form any sort of relevant or meaningful analogy.  In any case, my point wasn't about criminals receiving visibly suspicious money but non-criminals inadvertently receiving it if there was widespread adoption....

Zola.

Criminals will always find a way to be successful criminals ultimately. 

On Bitcoin (and all the other junk), KYC is there to get access to exchange markets to buy bitcoin, and you will need a KYC way to convert it back i.e. if you wish to sell to a fiat currency. It's really not very different from the cash world problem if you are a criminal and somehow have Pablo Escobar sums of cash lying about. That is what regulation has brought in.

In fact, it'd be wiser to try and conduct illegal activities with cash and with whatever money laundering technique there is available because all transactions on the bitcoin blockchain are very public, traceable and they are incorruptibly there forever. 

Cash, like a non-custodial bitcoin wallet, is relatively anonymous until you try to work with a bank.

However, down the road, IF Bitcoin does become the dominant monetary standard, then that effectively separates money from the state and it would be interesting to see what happens there...

Scottex99

eskbanker said:

Scottex99 said:

There is no KYC or AML for BTC. It's decentralised. I could have moved that 0.35 BTC to any of millions of wallets in the world and nobody can stop me. There is however checks, regs, tax etc to consider if/when you off ramp those coins into fiat and try to credit the money to your bank

The decentralisation and lack of control are obviously often cited as advantages of the technology and its implementation, but in the specific context of adoption as an actual currency, the prospect of recipients inadvertently being on the wrong end of the proceeds of crime surely has to be a negative factor?  Maybe that isn't a significant issue in El Salvador, but I'd have thought it would hinder acceptability in more developed economies....

Could be yeah, but random coins are very unlikely to land in your wallet given how specific the addresses are.

There’s a much higher chance that you interact with some coins tainted from the dark web historically but really that’s no different to the £20 note in your wallet that’s covered in coke and was in a strippers handbag yesterday