BITCOIN

lozzy1965

Yes, but Bitcoin (Not all crypto) has been shown to be rather less than was hoped for?  Carbon foot print, hacking?  Yes, we need faster movement of money over the world, but we do also need checks against criminality - and that costs money.  Current currencies are now pretty digital?  They 'could' be allowed to flip from one country to another for free and instantaneously, but there is a real reason and was a real need for money laundering rules.  I see blockchain has benefits, but as a currency, not so sure once the necessary checks are in place.
Edit:  I'm by no means an expert as no doubt will be pointed out, and I work on some of those legacy systems (20 years old is ours!) and understand their inadequacies.

Zola.

Bitcoin the protocol has never been hacked.

Poorly designed exchange markets have been hacked before and some continue to do so. For reputable brands, this has brought around excellent security, which is actually far better than my bank's security..

What do you mean rather less than hoped for? It's 12 years old and becoming ever more influential by the day. Rome wasnt built in a day

grumiofoundation

Zola. said:

lozzy1965 said:

Apologies for posting this in the BITCOIN thread, but with reference to the above video, I think there might be a new crypto coin called "Peanut" coming!
I listened to half of it.  Obviously the guy's reasons are compelling, but it is a sales pitch from a pro crypto person.  That doesn't mean I dismiss it out of hand, but I would like to hear the counter argument.  Off the top of my head, what he is saying is so great about Bitcoin - it's speed of movement across boarders - could apply to any existing currency, if it wasn't for all the checks and controls governments require to ensure that what is being done is legal?  I didn't quite get the moving a dollar from the US to El Salvador having 4 or 5 steps along the way - surely it's just one transfer fee?  Not that I've ever sent any money to El Salvador!
Probably rehashing old arguments here but I haven't read the whole of this thread!!!

The counter-argument will be from old farts who just don't get it.  "but we need these old slow vampire banks who take forever, rip everyone off with fees and use IT systems built 50 years ago, which aren't fit for purpose in the modern world, bro" 

Damn right it's a sales pitch from a pro-crypto person, but the idea is out there now, it will never be put back in the box. Nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come.

Technology moves the world forward and thank god for 27 year old "crypto bros" like Jack Mallers, who have the creativity to build something of value that the world needs.

To use a football analogy, play the ball not the man.

If your aim is to convince people of the validity of your arguments you by resorting to insults you are actually making your arguments appear weaker, as often when someone feels the need to resort to insulting the person who's argument they disagree with, it is a result of them knowing their own argument is not strong enough.

Zola.

If you say so. Those who argue against bitcoin the most are typically the older generation who are set in their  ways and don't like technological change. 

Ps i genuinely don't care to convince anyone nor do i intend to offend. Just stating my no filter opinion. 

Merry Christmas 

lozzy1965

I chose not to be one of the 'old farts' zola was referring to   though I almost certainly fit the bill on the age front!  I hope I am pretty open minded for my age.
The carbon footprint is an issue for Bitcoin.  I stand corrected on the 'hacked' comment.
I assume blockchain will be able to offer mortgages and loans but Bitcoin can't.
There's a reason the old vampire banks are slow.  It's because they have many millions of customers and much regulation to adhere to.  Yes they have legacy systems built on old technology, funnily enough though, once you start to use things in anger, we have found that the old technology is the most reliable.

Michael121

Why I Don't Let Emotions Get In The Way of Business | Short - YouTube

Oops posted the wrong vid

750k in the hole and doesn't care one bit. He is now betting on what you lot would call !!!!!! coins alongside some BTC and stable coins.

As an old poker saying goes to rich to fold, this lot don't care if crypto goes to zero, it is pocket change to them.

Merry Christmas!!

lozzy1965

Michael121 said:

Why I Don't Let Emotions Get In The Way of Business | Short - YouTube

Oops posted the wrong vid

750k in the hole and doesn't care one bit. He is now betting on what you lot would call !!!!!! coins alongside some BTC and stable coins.

As an old poker saying goes to rich to fold, this lot don't care if crypto goes to zero, it is pocket change to them.

Merry Christmas!!

Ha ha I caught the first vid.  I liked that one

Merry Christmas to ALL who post here, very interesting discussions on both sides and lots of help given out too.  Now if you'll excuse me I need to go and get some cash out of a machine for Christmas

Zola.

lozzy1965 said:

I chose not to be one of the 'old farts' zola was referring to   though I almost certainly fit the bill on the age front!  I hope I am pretty open minded for my age.
The carbon footprint is an issue for Bitcoin.  I stand corrected on the 'hacked' comment.
I assume blockchain will be able to offer mortgages and loans but Bitcoin can't.
There's a reason the old vampire banks are slow.  It's because they have many millions of customers and much regulation to adhere to.  Yes they have legacy systems built on old technology, funnily enough though, once you start to use things in anger, we have found that the old technology is the most reliable.

The carbon footprint / ESG argument potentially but that is mostly FUD that has been debunked a lot. See these:

https://hbr.org/2021/05/how-much-energy-does-bitcoin-actually-consume
https://blog.trezor.io/three-myths-about-bitcoins-energy-consumption-ef613a1f3d5
https://docsend.com/view/adwmdeeyfvqwecj2

You can argue Christmas tree lights are a massive waste of energy, watching the Kardashians on tv etc. Youtube emits many times more carbon emissions than Bitcoin ever will, yet it provides value so it can remain. Bitcoin is no different. 

On blockchain and mortgages etc, this is wrong. We can also say that using a blockchain to run a mortgage is a bit like using a hammer to squash a grape, there are more efficient ways to do such things, like existing tech as you say, a simple bank account.. although smart contracts could play a role. Bitcoin is being extended daily, it can be developed to do anything that any of the altcoins do. You can think of any of the altcoins as a testing ground for features that can be brought into Bitcoin. 

https://unchained.com/blog/bitcoin-not-blockchain/ 

Zola.

lozzy1965 said:

Michael121 said:

Why I Don't Let Emotions Get In The Way of Business | Short - YouTube

Oops posted the wrong vid

750k in the hole and doesn't care one bit. He is now betting on what you lot would call !!!!!! coins alongside some BTC and stable coins.

As an old poker saying goes to rich to fold, this lot don't care if crypto goes to zero, it is pocket change to them.

Merry Christmas!!

Ha ha I caught the first vid.  I liked that one

Merry Christmas to ALL who post here, very interesting discussions on both sides and lots of help given out too.  Now if you'll excuse me I need to go and get some cash out of a machine for Christmas

Agreed, for the most part, it can be a good discussion, although a lot of the same points keep getting made on both sides. I think this will be an epic thread to look back on in around 2025/6, especially after the next halving. I hope MSE doesn't burn this thread... I am sure there will be lots to discuss between now and then and if we keep it going it'll be funny to see how opinions change...

Have a nice Christmas all !!
Not too early to open a bottle of red is it?

Section62

Zola. said:

If you say so. Those who argue against bitcoin the most are typically the older generation who are set in their  ways and don't like technological change. 

Ps i genuinely don't care to convince anyone nor do i intend to offend. Just stating my no filter opinion. 

Merry Christmas 

How do you know? Particularly on a forum like this where there is no indication of how old individual posters are?

All you have to go on is what they write.

It's also a myth that the 'older generation' don't like technological change.  Some older people don't like change, just as some younger people don't either.  These 'older' people have lived through and embraced technological change every bit as challenging as technologies such as crypto.

Bros who resort to dismissing other people's views on the basis of ageism don't do their case any good.