BITCOIN

adindas

bugbyte_2 said:

adindas said:

The institution/people who own Bitcoin the most.

https://mybtc.ca/article/who-owns-the-most-bitcoin

Those who own the most only control a small proportion, e.g less than 5%, so noone will be able to control the price movement to make a significant gain without taking a high risk themselves.

Those who are pulling the rug from under will fall alone.

Top 1000 investors own 1/3 of bitcoin.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-29/bitcoin-whales-fuel-this-month-s-price-jump-kraken-report-says

I would be extremely surprised if they didn't know and talk to each other, agree strategy, know how much to invest / devest to pump / dump the price and therefore make billions. Why on earth wouldn't they? It is not illegal unlike stocks as it is unregulated. Why else would they be in it? It does not take much to trigger a rise / fall - If you don't believe me (which you won't of course) go look at the trading volumes around major price movements - much, much less than your 'e.g....5%'. They just need to spook you into buying or selling.

Good to hear that counter argument at least the discussion have moved on.

Top 1000 investors own 1/3 of bitcoin collaborate together.

1. How could it be possible 1000 people to collaborate together?? Have ever heard 1000 people collaborate each other in the history of the stock market to move the asset price? Let alone this is Blockchain, not stock/share. But they might do individual action due to physiological effect. Remember millions of people get involved. Many people might just follow the crowd. The same way when the market crashes, crypto crashes do happen.

2. It is Illegal, you get caught it will wipe out the gain you have accumulated, to pay fine. Do you think SEC is stupid will not be able to detect 1000 whales collaborate?

3. 33.33% is still small to control the price. , you will need far more than 50%+ so any price movement you will be the main beneficiary.

bugbyte_2

3. 33.33% is still small to control the price. , you will need far more than 50%+ so any price movement you will be the main beneficiary.

Cant see why you would think that. Are you suggesting you would have to sell more than 50% of the market value before you would get negative price movement? A 50% sell off would see the value plummet to practically zero. You would need a group of investors with over 1/2 a trillion dollars willing and able to prop it up. I would suggest that if a whale moved less than 0.05% of market cap there would be ripples.

adindas

bugbyte_2 said:

3. 33.33% is still small to control the price. , you will need far more than 50%+ so any price movement you will be the main beneficiary.

Cant see why you would think that. Are you suggesting you would have to sell more than 50% of the market value before you would get negative price movement? A 50% sell off would see the value plummet to practically zero. You would need a group of investors with over 1/2 a trillion dollars willing and able to prop it up. I would suggest that if a whale moved less than 0.05% of market cap there would be ripples.

They do not need to sell/buy it at the same time. But if you control 50%+ you have a great control of it to dictate the outcome.

Keep in mind when the price drop siginificanlty, 33.33% (say) many people will be adding their position, limit order will be executed, the newcomers enter the market pushing the price up again.

With such huge amount of money getting involved you will only be risking it when you could dictate the outcome.

You do not know at what price the other 50% will enter the market, willing to pay  !!!

Crypro crashes happen many times just look at what happen thereafter, bounce back again.

Section62

adindas said:

1. How could it be possible 1000 people to collaborate together?? Have ever heard 1000 people collaborate each other in the history of the stock market to move the asset price?

GameStop?

Or should I say "Gamestonk!"?

Not that long ago - so it should still be fresh in people's memories.

adindas said:

2. It is Illegal, you get caught it will wipe out the gain you have accumulated, to pay fine. Do you think SEC is stupid will not be able to detect 1000 whales collaborate?

Got a link?

Bearing in mind only yesterday Scottex was pointing out (correctly) the difficulty for the authorities to work out who owns what in the cryptocurrency world (in relation to collecting/enforcing CGT) - how do you propose the authorities could keep tabs on who is selling and buying what in order to 'detect' what you believe to be illegal?

(I'm not condoning nor supporting illegal activity with that question)

adindas

Section62 said:

adindas said:

1. How could it be possible 1000 people to collaborate together?? Have ever heard 1000 people collaborate each other in the history of the stock market to move the asset price?

GameStop?

Or should I say "Gamestonk!"?

Not that long ago - so it should still be fresh in people's memories.

adindas said:

2. It is Illegal, you get caught it will wipe out the gain you have accumulated, to pay fine. Do you think SEC is stupid will not be able to detect 1000 whales collaborate?

Got a link?

Bearing in mind only yesterday Scottex was pointing out (correctly) the difficulty for the authorities to work out who owns what in the cryptocurrency world (in relation to collecting/enforcing CGT) - how do you propose the authorities could keep tabs on who is selling and buying what in order to 'detect' what you believe to be illegal?

(I'm not condoning nor supporting illegal activity with that question)

GameStop/AMC is hedgies against (WSB/the apes & retail investors) which are retail investors like the one who will buy BTC in small quantity. The Hedgies who control many shares got Squeezed. There are a million of retailers lots of retailer investor getting involved

If the whales do not have a great control they might end up like Game stock/AMC, losing money from short squuze that is what I have said. Let alone if it is BTC with US$1T market cap how much money do they need ?

Mentioning Game stock or "Gamestonk!" shows great degree of dislike like people who still believe that those WSB who get involved in Game stock are naives. The few naives are the one who bought it when it already got squeezed, FOMO buying.

I might stop discussing with those who still believe that the earth are flat, who still believe that BTC are a scam because Warren Buffest / Charlie Munger are saying so. It turns to become the dialogue of the deaf.

Securities Exchange Act of 1934

SEC. 9. (a) It shall be unlawful for any person, directly or indirectly, by the use of the mails or any means or instrumentality of interstate commerce, or of any facility of any national securities exchange, or for any member of a national securities exchange—

(2) To effect, alone or with 1 or more other persons, a series of transactions in any security other than a government security, any security not so registered, or in connection with any security-based swap or security-based swap agreement with respect to such security creating actual or apparent active trading in such security, or raising or depressing the price of such security, for the purpose of inducing the purchase or sale of such security by others.

bugbyte_2

Bitcoin is a commodity not a security.

And it is unregulated.

And most people are not under US jurisdiction.

And isn't the whole point of crypto that you can all be libertarians.

I find it interesting that you keep mentioning Bitcoin as a scam, while no one else does. It is what it is - there is capacity to make money with its fluctuation in price. The mental gymnastics on here is quite immense to try and prove it is anything other than a fairly secure finite string of numbers that people want to trade because they believe the price will go up.

Section62

adindas said:

GameStop/AMC is hedgies against (WSB/the apes & retail investors) which are retail investors like the one who will buy BTC in small quantity. The Hedgies who control many shares got Squeezed. There are a million of retailers lots of retailer investor getting involved If the whales do not have a great control they might end up like Game stock/AMC, losing money from short squuze that is what I have said. Let alone if it is BTC with US$1T market cap how much money do they need ?

Who is involved and how is irrelevant.  You asked "How could it be possible 1000 people to collaborate together?? Have ever heard 1000 people collaborate each other in the history of the stock market to move the asset price?"

My answer is "Yes".  We've seen how easy it is for people to collaborate together using the internet, and how they (or just one person in other cases) are quite capable of moving the asset price.

This shouldn't be a bone of contention.  It is patently obvious from recent history that people have the power to do this, if they so wish.

adindas said:

Mentioning Game stock or "Gamestonk!" shows great degree of dislike like people who still believe that those WSB who get involved in Game stock are naives. The few naives are the one who bought it when it already got squeezed, FOMO buying.

What on earth leads you to that conclusion?  I mentioned it because GameStop is an obvious example of something you were suggesting was not possible/unheard of.

I mentioned "Gamestonk!" for reasons which should be obvious to anyone who is familiar with the subject you raised - i.e. "Whales".  Is that not easy to see?

adindas said:

I might stop discussing with those who still believe that the earth are flat, who still believe that BTC are a scam because Warren Buffest / Charlie Munger are saying so. It turns to become the dialogue of the deaf.

I'm not sure how that is relevant to my post you were replying to.  In case of doubt, I don't believe the Earth is flat, nor do I think BTC is a scam.  I've also got very little interest in anything "Warren Buffest / Charlie Munger" say. One of them I've never heard of.

adindas said:

Securities Exchange Act of 1934

SEC. 9. (a) It shall be unlawful for any person, directly or indirectly, by the use of the mails or any means or instrumentality of interstate commerce, or of any facility of any national securities exchange, or for any member of a national securities exchange—

(2) To effect, alone or with 1 or more other persons, a series of transactions in any security other than a government security, any security not so registered, or in connection with any security-based swap or security-based swap agreement with respect to such security creating actual or apparent active trading in such security, or raising or depressing the price of such security, for the purpose of inducing the purchase or sale of such security by others.

So you've chosen US law as the basis for your claim?  What is the territorial extent of US law in relation to cryptocurrency transactions?

And more importantly - the issue you didn't address - "how do you propose the authorities could keep tabs on who is selling and buying what in order to 'detect' what you believe to be illegal?"  A major selling point of cryptocurrency has been the impossibility for the authorities to intervene in or block transactions.  Are you now suggesting this isn't true?

adindas

bugbyte_2 said:

Bitcoin is a commodity not a security.

And it is unregulated.

And most people are not under US jurisdiction.

And isn't the whole point of crypto that you can all be libertarians.

I find it interesting that you keep mentioning Bitcoin as a scam, while no one else does. It is what it is - there is capacity to make money with its fluctuation in price. The mental gymnastics on here is quite immense to try and prove it is anything other than a fairly secure finite string of numbers that people want to trade because they believe the price will go up.

There are a few people on this thread. If you browse it.

A few are saying because Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger are saying it is a scam. That is why I posted what WB ad CM are saying.

Also there are other threads on MSE

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6262770/beware-bitcoin-scam

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5819294/bitcoin-scam

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75353900#Comment_75353900

bugbyte_2

You do realise the three links you posted ARE scams?

Zola.

https://twitter.com/BitcoinMagazine/status/1455645031356829696