County Court Claim Form Defence

Charlie1900

Redx said:

Charlie1900 said:

Redx said:

I assume you binned the NTK PCN , so until you have a copy it's pointless asking us about keeper liability , like you we don't know either , because you have not shown us the NTK (both sides)

Your defence is based on incorrect company contract , no landowner authority , keeper was not the driver etc , same as that other thread except yours is Britannia , who usually contract as the wrong company , unlike NCP

Yes. I binned all letters from PPC and debt collector except the letter of claim from BW Legal. 

Very foolish because you would now have the paperwork to hand , plus if you had come here back then we would have helped you to win at Popla , so stop binning letters !!

Regrets come in packs 😜

Coupon mad has rewritten your paragraphs for you

Bear in mind that if you lost in Court your final bill is probably less than the amount claimed by the claimant, so why pay a larger figure ?

Yeah, I'll fight the claim. If lost in the Court, just pay the final bill promptly as you guys suggested on this forum. Won't bin the letters in future!
Not rely on SAR to prepare the defence. But I expect SAR to arrive before the hearing (if not before the submission of defence). So probably I'll have some time to absorb the SAR and prepare some response before the hearing.

KeithP

Charlie1900 said:

Redx said:

Charlie1900 said:

Redx said:

I assume you binned the NTK PCN , so until you have a copy it's pointless asking us about keeper liability , like you we don't know either , because you have not shown us the NTK (both sides)

Your defence is based on incorrect company contract , no landowner authority , keeper was not the driver etc , same as that other thread except yours is Britannia , who usually contract as the wrong company , unlike NCP

Yes. I binned all letters from PPC and debt collector except the letter of claim from BW Legal. 

Very foolish because you would now have the paperwork to hand , plus if you had come here back then we would have helped you to win at Popla , so stop binning letters !!

Regrets come in packs 😜

Coupon mad has rewritten your paragraphs for you

Bear in mind that if you lost in Court your final bill is probably less than the amount claimed by the claimant, so why pay a larger figure ?

So probably I'll have some time to absorb the SAR and prepare some response before the hearing.

And that 'response' will be a Witness Statement and evidence - both of which are described in the second post of the NEWBIES thread.

Umkomaas

Charlie1900 said:

Redx said:

Charlie1900 said:

Redx said:

I assume you binned the NTK PCN , so until you have a copy it's pointless asking us about keeper liability , like you we don't know either , because you have not shown us the NTK (both sides)

Your defence is based on incorrect company contract , no landowner authority , keeper was not the driver etc , same as that other thread except yours is Britannia , who usually contract as the wrong company , unlike NCP

Yes. I binned all letters from PPC and debt collector except the letter of claim from BW Legal. 

Very foolish because you would now have the paperwork to hand , plus if you had come here back then we would have helped you to win at Popla , so stop binning letters !!

Regrets come in packs 😜

Coupon mad has rewritten your paragraphs for you

Bear in mind that if you lost in Court your final bill is probably less than the amount claimed by the claimant, so why pay a larger figure ?

Yeah, I'll fight the claim. If lost in the Court, just pay the final bill promptly as you guys suggested on this forum. Won't bin the letters in future!
Not rely on SAR to prepare the defence. But I expect SAR to arrive before the hearing (if not before the submission of defence). So probably I'll have some time to absorb the SAR and prepare some response before the hearing.

You've got a whole lot to do beyond your Defence and before you get to any hearing. Miss any of the mandatory steps to follow, and you have a judgment in default against you and it's the full amount now being sought by the PPC payable to them within a month, otherwise your credit rating will be trashed. 

Charlie1900

Charlie1900

Many thanks for your earlier suggestions and help. Glad my SAR has arrived within two weeks. Please see above. There are a notice to keeper (NTK) issued within 14 days after the car was parked and a final reminder plus some digital images of the car (not uploaded here).

Did the parking company do anything wrong here so that I can include in the Defence?

Also I have read a bit about keeper liability requirement. Can I say the following conditions of the keeper liability requirement are not met?

 “Warn the keeper that if the parking charges remains outstanding after 28 days and the name and address of the driver has not been given, or otherwise known to the person entitled to the parking charge,  that “creditor” will be entitled to recover the parking charge from the registered keeper.”

-------- My understanding is that the NTK and final reminder do not give this warning.

- "State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when"

------ I am not sure if this condition is met or not.

"The maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper under keeper liablity is the amount specified on the notice to keeper"

--------  My understanding is that this information is not provided.

Coupon-mad

What's 14 days got to do with it, when anyone can see there is nothing from para 9 of the POFA in the wording?  

We encourage newbies to look and compare for themselves and not ask us...so look again.  And again.

Charlie1900

Coupon-mad said:

What's 14 days got to do with it, when anyone can see there is nothing from para 9 of the POFA in the wording?  

We encourage newbies to look and compare for themselves and not ask us...so look again.  And again.

Sorry, I mentioned 14 days because Para 9 (5) of  POFA says 
(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

The PPC sent the NTK within 14 days, which satisfies this point. 

Charlie1900

I have read para 9 a couple of times but still not sure if the keeper liability requirement is met or the PPC did anything wrong.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

 Are all conditions for keeper liability met?  Your help is greatly appreciated.

Para 9 (f) says

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

 

The NTK does have a warning “Failure to pay the full amount of this notice within 29 days …………………” But this warning does not mention if the amount has not been paid in full and if the creditor does not know the number of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will have the right to recover from the keeper.

Coupon-mad

Charlie1900 said:

Coupon-mad said:

What's 14 days got to do with it, when anyone can see there is nothing from para 9 of the POFA in the wording?  

We encourage newbies to look and compare for themselves and not ask us...so look again.  And again.

Sorry, I mentioned 14 days because Para 9 (5) of  POFA says 
(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

The PPC sent the NTK within 14 days, which satisfies this point. 

Yes, we know all that; we even remember when the POFA Bill was being written so we are very familiar with the Schedule 4.

I am telling you it's not about getting any old bit of paper to you, with any old words on it, by day 14.

The NTK does have a warning “Failure to pay the full amount of this notice within 29 days …………………” But this warning does not mention if the amount has not been paid in full and if the creditor does not know the number of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will have the right to recover from the keeper.

Bingo.

Charlie1900

Para 9 (e) says

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

The above NTK does not explicitly state the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service of the driver. Is this correct? Thanks!