Pylon in the garden

Were_Doomed

A conveyancer (solicitor) never visits the property. If the buyer doesn't mention it, and it's not listed on any paperwork (as indicated above - this may happen), then it won't come to light during the conveyancing process.

Barny1979

It will be a telegraph pole, but describing it as a pylon makes it sound sexy, but also makes the OP sound silly that they didn't spot it in their land.

davidmcn

Manxman_in_exile said:

davidmcn said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

1.  go back to your conveyancing solicitor and complain that they didn't point this out to you at the time of purchase.  Their searches and enquiries of the vendor must have identified the presence of this pylon

There are no normal searches or enquiries which are going to reveal a telegraph pole which doesn't have a wayleave/easement attached to it (which, as above, would be the case if it's carrying the wire serving the property).

Surely it would have come to light (assuming that the purchaser had not noticed    ) at some stage during the conveyancing process that there's a ****ing great pole or pylon belonging to Openreach right slap bang in the middle of the property - all of which - you thought you were buying?  Maybe I'm completely mistaken here but I would expect a competent surveyor and/or solicitor to draw my attention to it!  Assuming thet the OP was unaware (    ) are you saying there are no usual searches or enquiries that would reveal it?

No, there is no "telegraph pole search" routinely carried out by solicitors. You can get a utilities search from BT which (I think) would show up such things but it's not something you normally get unless e.g. you're worried about accidentally sticking your digger through cables. Overhead cables come into the realm of the bleeding obvious, and depending on the neighbourhood it's the standard way of your telephone line reaching the house, so why be concerned about it - it's a bit like asking whether there's a gas pipe under the driveway - well, yeah, that's how the gas gets to the house.

The standard property information form (example here) only asks about "any agreement or arrangement" about wires.

mattyprice4004

owenrhys84 said:

Hi everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.
it was not identified by the estate agent, the person selling the property, conveyance, and there was a shed covering the lower half of the pole, so when viewing the garden the pole did not look like it was within the land I was buying. It was not until I had the shed removed that I found the pole is on my land. Open reach have agreed that the pole belongs to them, so any help would be appreciated. 

I think the link to Specsavers someone posted is the most helpful lead you can follow.

It was already there, you just didn't bother to check properly. Sod all you can do now - the time for spotting 10 metre tall poles in the garden you think might be an issue is when viewing the house.

mikb

Barny1979 said:

you should have flagged this at the point of viewing

Bad advice. Don't attach flags to telephone poles, or pylons. Get a proper flagpole and put it on that.

Manxman_in_exile

davidmcn said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

davidmcn said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

1.  go back to your conveyancing solicitor and complain that they didn't point this out to you at the time of purchase.  Their searches and enquiries of the vendor must have identified the presence of this pylon

There are no normal searches or enquiries which are going to reveal a telegraph pole which doesn't have a wayleave/easement attached to it (which, as above, would be the case if it's carrying the wire serving the property).

Surely it would have come to light (assuming that the purchaser had not noticed    ) at some stage during the conveyancing process that there's a ****ing great pole or pylon belonging to Openreach right slap bang in the middle of the property - all of which - you thought you were buying?  Maybe I'm completely mistaken here but I would expect a competent surveyor and/or solicitor to draw my attention to it!  Assuming thet the OP was unaware (    ) are you saying there are no usual searches or enquiries that would reveal it?

No, there is no "telegraph pole search" routinely carried out by solicitors. You can get a utilities search from BT which (I think) would show up such things but it's not something you normally get unless e.g. you're worried about accidentally sticking your digger through cables. Overhead cables come into the realm of the bleeding obvious, and depending on the neighbourhood it's the standard way of your telephone line reaching the house, so why be concerned about it - it's a bit like asking whether there's a gas pipe under the driveway - well, yeah, that's how the gas gets to the house.

The standard property information form (example here) only asks about "any agreement or arrangement" about wires.

Eh?  Surely it doesn't only ask about any "agreement or arrangement"?  (*)

"Law Society Property Information Form Page 13 of 18 © Law Society 2020

TA6 Services crossing the property or neighbouring property

8.7 Do any drains, pipes or wires serving the property cross any neighbour’s property?

8.8 Do any drains, pipes or wires leading to any neighbour’s property cross the property?

8.9 Is there any agreement or arrangement about drains, pipes or wires? If Yes, please supply a copy or give details:..."

Unless the pylon wires service only the OP's property (which they may do - we don't know) then surely it is caught under 8.8?

The point I was trying to make in my two previous posts is that this must (or should) have been identified pre-conveyance.  There may not be a "special telegraph pole search" but 8.8 asks: "Do any drains, pipes or wires leading to any neighbour’s property cross the property? ... If Yes, please supply a copy or give details:"   To me this means that if there is a telegraph pole (or pylon    ) in your back garden, you need to mention it (unless the wires etc only serve your property).

If I had been the vendor and was asked that question 8.8  I would (unless the pylon/pole serviced only my property) have said: "Yes - there's a pylon/telegraph pole in the back garden providing services to me and/or my neighbours".

Of course, all this is not to say that the vendors did not answer "Yes", or that the OP's solicitor did not tell the OP or that the OP chose to ignore it...

But I still think the OP must should have been apprised of the existence of the pole pre-conveyance.

(*)  I would in any case suggest as a purchaser that a pylon/telegraph pole/service pole in the vendor's back garden amounted to an "arrangement" that should have been disclosed by the vendor under 8.9  Any other interpretation is ludicrous.

EDIT:  There must be questions about liability/insurance as well.  What if the pole collapsed and decapitated a party of nuns carrying kittens?  How is liability determined?  Especially if the OP inadvertantly (but negligently) demolished the pole/pylon causing injury to the aforesaid nuns and kittens?

I can't believe that even if the existence of the pole/pylon was not immediately obvious (    )to the OP on physical inspection of the property, that it would not have been revealed during searches/enquiries/conveyance

davidmcn

Manxman_in_exile said:

davidmcn said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

davidmcn said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

1.  go back to your conveyancing solicitor and complain that they didn't point this out to you at the time of purchase.  Their searches and enquiries of the vendor must have identified the presence of this pylon

There are no normal searches or enquiries which are going to reveal a telegraph pole which doesn't have a wayleave/easement attached to it (which, as above, would be the case if it's carrying the wire serving the property).

Surely it would have come to light (assuming that the purchaser had not noticed    ) at some stage during the conveyancing process that there's a ****ing great pole or pylon belonging to Openreach right slap bang in the middle of the property - all of which - you thought you were buying?  Maybe I'm completely mistaken here but I would expect a competent surveyor and/or solicitor to draw my attention to it!  Assuming thet the OP was unaware (    ) are you saying there are no usual searches or enquiries that would reveal it?

No, there is no "telegraph pole search" routinely carried out by solicitors. You can get a utilities search from BT which (I think) would show up such things but it's not something you normally get unless e.g. you're worried about accidentally sticking your digger through cables. Overhead cables come into the realm of the bleeding obvious, and depending on the neighbourhood it's the standard way of your telephone line reaching the house, so why be concerned about it - it's a bit like asking whether there's a gas pipe under the driveway - well, yeah, that's how the gas gets to the house.

The standard property information form (example here) only asks about "any agreement or arrangement" about wires.

But I still think the OP must should have been apprised of the existence of the pole pre-conveyance.

Only if the vendor had been quite meticulous about exactly whose wires passed through their airspace. Assuming the pole is at the bottom of the garden then I expect there is only minor incursion by the neighbours' lines - and apparently it's taken the OP two years to realise the pole even exists!

Grumpy_chap

Manxman_in_exile said:

Unless the pylon wires service only the OP's property (which they may do - we don't know) 

We do know, from the OP:

owenrhys84 said:

This Pylon is full sized and provides Open Reach accessibility (yes, to my property) but also to 4 or 5 other properties surrounding my house.

What we don't know is why the OP did not see this pole when viewing the property.  OK, so there was mention of the pole being obscured by the shed - maybe the pole is very short, or the shed very tall?

We also don't know why this is such a common reference:

Manxman_in_exile said:

a party of nuns carrying kittens

davidmcn

Manxman_in_exile said:

davidmcn said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

davidmcn said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

1.  go back to your conveyancing solicitor and complain that they didn't point this out to you at the time of purchase.  Their searches and enquiries of the vendor must have identified the presence of this pylon

There are no normal searches or enquiries which are going to reveal a telegraph pole which doesn't have a wayleave/easement attached to it (which, as above, would be the case if it's carrying the wire serving the property).

Surely it would have come to light (assuming that the purchaser had not noticed    ) at some stage during the conveyancing process that there's a ****ing great pole or pylon belonging to Openreach right slap bang in the middle of the property - all of which - you thought you were buying?  Maybe I'm completely mistaken here but I would expect a competent surveyor and/or solicitor to draw my attention to it!  Assuming thet the OP was unaware (    ) are you saying there are no usual searches or enquiries that would reveal it?

No, there is no "telegraph pole search" routinely carried out by solicitors. You can get a utilities search from BT which (I think) would show up such things but it's not something you normally get unless e.g. you're worried about accidentally sticking your digger through cables. Overhead cables come into the realm of the bleeding obvious, and depending on the neighbourhood it's the standard way of your telephone line reaching the house, so why be concerned about it - it's a bit like asking whether there's a gas pipe under the driveway - well, yeah, that's how the gas gets to the house.

The standard property information form (example here) only asks about "any agreement or arrangement" about wires.

There must be questions about liability/insurance as well.  What if the pole collapsed and decapitated a party of nuns carrying kittens?  How is liability determined?  Especially if the OP inadvertantly (but negligently) demolished the pole/pylon causing injury to the aforesaid nuns and kittens?

Why would this particular pole raise these questions? Telegraph poles have been widespread for well over a century - I'm sure there have been enough nun/kitten incidents in order to resolve any such principles.

Manxman_in_exile

owenrhys84 said:

...This Pylon is full sized and provides Open Reach accessibility (yes, to my property) but also to 4 or 5 other properties surrounding my house.
 ...

So despite there being "... no 'telegraph pole search' routinely carried out by solicitors... " the existence of the wires the "pylon" carries supplying 4 or 5 neighbouring properties should have been disclosed under s 8.8 of the property information form (or equivalent) used by the OP's solicitors, and the vendors should have given details of that.

So, unless the OP ignored what he was told (which I do not discount), either the vendors didn't answer the question truthfully or the OP's solicitor didn't convey that information to him.

I cannot believe that pre-conveyance enquiries would not reveal the existence of such an "arrangement", whether it should have been blidingly obvious to the OP or not.

(Nuns carrying kittens need to be particularly vigilant on these boards - preferably with ready access to solicitors specialising in PI claims).