Audi e-tron & EV surge protection?

mateus

The 3 pin adaptor / slow charger would likely have blown and has a form of surge protection inbuilt. I was using an approved fast charger fitted by approved installer 
The issue is the regs as quoted above do not mandate them to offer nor add surge protection in their current guise.

So as you say it should be very very clear on liability here but it is not. Thus far I'm getting nowhere with any organisation on addressing these issues..including some automotive press, national newspapers and watchdog etc!

The more visibility this can get the better. Car makers cannot pass the buck to buyers!

Grumpy_chap

This does not make any sense. 

You were using a fast charger (7.2kW?) which is specifically designed for charging your electric vehicle. 
Was that all part of the same purchase package?  It is possible you have a charger from a previous plug-in hybrid that does not meet latest Audi specs.  Not a common situation given the infancy of the technology, but a possibility.

It is beyond belief that the specific fast-charger does not include whatever protection the manufacturer of the car deems necessary to protect the car from damage that is reasonably foreseeable.  Either in-built to the fast-charger (expected), or clearly stated as part of the installation and use instructions.
It is not relevant whether the wiring regs mandate the surge protection - it is on the manufacturer to provide a solution that is fit for purpose.

Accepting that the surge protection is not included as standard, do the installation and use instructions advise this as either required or recommended?  If not, and you have installed / used everything as per the manual then you should be in the clear and it is clearly for Audi to pick up the tab.

Your OP says it is a lese car.  Have you approached the lease company?  They may have more influence than you do and also have a vested interest in protecting their assets (notice to all users of the cars to use surge protect) plus the ability to influence future sales of the cars.

Am I correct, the A3-etron is a plug-in hybrid, not all electric?

DrEskimo

I have an EV and have not thought about the need for a power surge protector. But then I don't tend to use them for anything in the house either.

My father-in-law is an electrician and qualified OLEV installer so I will speak to him about this. I will admit, I have been a regular member on the SpeakEV forum for the last 2/3yrs and I have not once come across a thread about the dangers and need for power surge protection with the EV charger....

jbainbridge

Have you been in touch with Audi UK? as opposed to just the dealer.

mateus

Absolutely, I escalated to Audi UK and was in discussions ongoing for weeks shortly after the initial guestimate at repair (around £2k +).  Then finally got a written response from their 'Technical Team' with the stance on responsibility for surge protection. We still have no full estimate to repair the car. I'm now waiting on insurance assessment, although there may be a further twist that electrical damage of this nature  may NOT be covered on car insurance! 

AdrianC

Grumpy_chap said:

As I understand it, you buy an electric car and are usually offered a wall-box (anything from "free" to £500ish), which is installed by a company arranged by the car manufacturer.  So, the onus is on the "package" provider to provide a complete installation suitable for the intended purpose.

It might not be quite that straightforward...

https://www.audi.co.uk/electric/charging/pod-point.html
People who buy a new Audi e-Tron are offered a free 7kW wall charger.
Audi recommend installation through a third party, PodPoint.

But there's a caveat or seventeen...
https://www.audi.co.uk/electric/charging/pod-point.html#offer
The OP hasn't said who supplied or installed the charger.

And I'm not even sure they've got an e-Tron, which is the big expensive BEV SUV. I think they've got what is now badged the A3 TFSI e, which is the plugin-hybrid Golfalike.
Which does not come with any charge-point incentives. Even then, given it's leased, such incentives may not apply.
And it may well just be plugged in to a 13A socket.

Grumpy_chap

mateus said:

written response from their 'Technical Team' with the stance on responsibility for surge protection. 

Does this stance align with the installation, operation and use instructions provided by Audi and by the wall-box manufacturer?

The current position is your view that it is ridiculous not to be covered directly conflicts with Audi's view that it would be ridiculous for them to cover it.

The only way to resolve that difference is by taking a deep breath and going back to the documentation as a starting point and then establishing who is liable.  For example, if the car instructions say to use the XYZ wall-box and the XYZ wall-box instructions say to install with surge protection, then the claim will move from Audi to the electrician.

From the point of view of the car insurance, they will probably rely on whether the car (and wall-box) was being operated inline with the installation, operation and use instructions.  That just takes you back to taking a deep breath and reading the documentation again very carefully.

facade

Apparently, the handbook says to unplug it in thunderstorm conditions, although I can't say I'd fancy holding onto a long cable outside in a thunderstorm- I assume you are supposed to use the weather forecast and unplug it well before.

mateus

Yes that was one of the items they quoted initially, although there are many questions off the back of that, such as what happens if you are unaware of storm, on holiday or otherwise unable to get to unplug it! Maybe users should stay awake 24/7 and watch the skies while charging!

With regards other points on installation guidelines. The charging unit is an approved one that meets the Audi specified standards as per manuals and European standard etc. and was used inline with both Audi's and the chargers guidelines. 
There is no requirement to fit or offer surge protection in accordance with NICEIC current Regs as specified above.

Grumpy_chap

This issue does not seem to be a common one and there is not much coming up on internet searches, but the 4th comment in this thread mentions it:
https://www.speakev.com/threads/surge-protection-devices-for-ev-chargers.135430/

I am not sure what is "inside" a car charge wall box, I assume it is just a high-powered AC - DC transformer plus the required plug sockets for the car leads.  Is it likely that surge would pass through the transformer to the DC-side, or would surge fry the wall box first?  Maybe there is an electrician that can advise?

I remain surprised that the wall-boxes do not include surge protection within them given the intended purpose and high-value equipment that is connected, which is also, apparently, subject to surge damage.  Seems to me like the wall boxes are not well-designed if this is required and not included.
How would this be dealt with at a public charging point?