My boss doesn't have me on the books. Can I claim furlough?

ekhoos

I work cash in hand at a local restaurant four days a week whilst looking for a career job in what I studied at University. A couple of weeks ago I raised my issues with not being on the books, under the assumption that a lockdown would take place again, with the extended furlough scheme. 

There are currently only four people on the books at the restaurant, the owners, one of the managers and one of the chefs. The rest of us are paid cash in hand with no pay slips, an issue that I am well aware is illegal. 

I raised again the other day, whether we would be able to be put on furlough as the restaurant will only remain open for deliveries (myself and most of the staff won't be needed)... I was told that they would speak with the accountant, however... will it even be possible to be put on furlough if there is no evidence that we have worked there due to lack of pay slips? Is there anything at all that can be done? 

Please help. 

bradders1983

No employee can "claim" furlough, it is a decision only an employer can make.  

But yes, if you arent on the PAYE system ("the books") then you wont be eligible for the official scheme, you are now relying on the goodwill of your boss to see if he will fund anything from his own pocket (I suspect this isnt likely)

MattMattMattUK

You can not be put on furlough (your employer puts you on furlough, you do not claim it as an individual) through the CJRS as you were not employed on a PAYE basis and a RTI submission for payroll was not submitted before 30/10. Regardless of if you had any evidence that you had worked there, you backdated bill for NI and IC would more than likely exceed the one months CJRS payments anyway, plus potential fines. 

bradders1983

The above is a fair point actually, any temptation to grass your employer up in retaliation may lead to you being chased for backdated tax, so tread carefully.

Jeremy535897

bradders1983 said:

The above is a fair point actually, any temptation to grass your employer up in retaliation may lead to you being chased for backdated tax, so tread carefully.

It is most unusual for HMRC to pursue employees in this sort of case for unpaid tax and NIC, if the employer can pay.

Dottydoolay

Twice I have worked for dodgy employers both times I had payslips had submitted all my correct details and was having correct deductions taken.
The first time the employers went to jail the second time HRMC came after me even though I had done nothing wrong at all and I had to pay the money to them again through a change in my tax code.
So they do indeed come after you.

macman

Depressing to hear that 'the accountant' is part of a conspiracy to defraud HMRC, as well as the owners.
OP, do you really feel that you'e entitled to benefit from state support by furlough, even though you have paid no tax or NI on your earnings?

Grumpy_chap

ekhoos said:

A couple of weeks ago I raised my issues with not being on the books, under the assumption that a lockdown would take place again, with the extended furlough scheme. 

That is amazing foresight - no-one else knew, especially not the extended furlough part of the second lockdown!
Your skills are wasted in the local restaurant - you should look for something that can make better use of the ability to accurately see the future, maybe insurance, book-makers, share trading.  
In the mean-time, use your fortune-telling skills to buy this week's winning lottery numbers - voila, immediate problem solved!

Jeremy535897

Dottydoolay said:

Twice I have worked for dodgy employers both times I had payslips had submitted all my correct details and was having correct deductions taken.
The first time the employers went to jail the second time HRMC came after me even though I had done nothing wrong at all and I had to pay the money to them again through a change in my tax code.
So they do indeed come after you.

This would normally only happen if the employer did not pay, and the employee knew no tax was being deducted. See regulation 72 The Income Tax (Pay As You Earn) Regulations 2003:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2682/regulation/72/made

MattMattMattUK

macman said:

Depressing to hear that 'the accountant' is part of a conspiracy to defraud HMRC, as well as the owners.

There are quite a few accountants who support small owner/director businesses and sole traders who are far more adept at fiddling the system and hiding true profit from HMRC than they are at doing accounts. Some are qualified and accredited, others are not but practice as "accountants" regardless. My ex boss used to have an accredited one that would make people's accounts say whatever they wanted, so long as they paid his fee. 

firsttimetom

Grumpy_chap said:

ekhoos said:

A couple of weeks ago I raised my issues with not being on the books, under the assumption that a lockdown would take place again, with the extended furlough scheme. 

That is amazing foresight - no-one else knew, especially not the extended furlough part of the second lockdown!
Your skills are wasted in the local restaurant - you should look for something that can make better use of the ability to accurately see the future, maybe insurance, book-makers, share trading.  
In the mean-time, use your fortune-telling skills to buy this week's winning lottery numbers - voila, immediate problem solved!

To be fair a second lockdown has been obviously imminent since at least the start of October. And any financial support was likely to follow the same systems as before. Millions were well documented to have missed out on being eligible for furlough, so it would
make sense for them to insist on being on the books.

Where I work (a food shop) we were crazily busy during the last lockdown, and we only really got through as we were able to pull in our weekend staff to work who would’ve normally been at school. I asked my employer back in September as to what his plan would be if we had a second lockdown as I couldn’t see them shutting the schools and Uni’s again, and was laughed off with a ‘of course they will’.

And so this week we are already rushed off of our feet with minimal staff, despite it being reasonably obvious what would happen. Awful planning, management and contingency planning skills in one fell swoop.