My Child's Friend is Toxic

pollyanna_26

Comms69 said:

Sounds like you're reading too much into typical kid behaviour. 

I have to disagree with this. You may view it as typical kid behaviour but it's unacceptable behaviour. My children never bullied others.

These things are often overlooked because people often view young children as harmless who may change as they grow older.

My middle daughter is a senior child safeguarding officer who could give you facts and figures on outcomes for youngsters who were neglected or left to do as they wanted when growing up.

However young the child they need to learn how to treat others. Parents and carers have a duty of care to ensure that happens.

The courts in the UK deal with those who moved from being a school bully to moving to physical and emotional violence whether to wives, partners or their own children. All those attacking strangers or knifing a youngster they don't know became that way over a number of years.

I'm wondering how the parents of the OPs daughters friend deal with the situation. Do they ignore it or fail to recognise the fact their daughter manipulates other children.

To quote Aristotle. "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man"

Follow your instincts OP. She's your child and in your shoes I would be concerned.

At the moment you can't physically remove your child from her friends but laying down guidelines will hopefully equip her to understand what is and isn't acceptable behaviour . Just as we teach ourchildren how to tie their shoelaces and cross the road safely it's part of upbringing.

polly

Spendless

pollypenny said:

Typical girls' bullying, which can continue for life. Girls' bullying us so much more difficult for schools to deal with than boys, who tend to fight and it's ended. 

Ensure her behaviour doesn't upset your daughter, by boosting her confidence. 

Yes, I agree. Mine ended up with Camhs for suicidal ideation due to what's being described here. And she was over double the age you're talking about OP.
And the school was rubbish in dealing with it. They wanted to pretend the situation wasn't happening and it was down to my child having special needs (she doesn't have SEN).

strawb_shortcake

Aranyani said:

I don't think its appropriate to call a 7 year old child a bully or toxic for this, and certainly not a 'b word meaning female dog', that is quite frankly disgusting coming from an adult woman.  This child is probably very insecure and low on self esteem hence engineering situations where she feels needed and important.  She might not even realise she is doing it and it is almost certainly about what is lacking in her own life, not about any real malice towards the excluded child. 

Teaching your daughter that the 'toxic' child needs her kindness too and to feel sympathy for her is an important part of dealing with this. 

I didn't call a 7 year old a !!!!!!.
I can only go from my experience and some girls can be incredibly nasty and vindictive and demonstrate traits that could certainly be described as bitchy behaviour and this does start in primary school. 
That's not to say that there isn't a reason for them acting the way they do, the main culprit in my earlier post, really was a nasty piece of work, I'm not sure exactly how old she was when she changed but it was before we went up to seniors. For instance she'd take great delight in hiding a boys glasses, on the school field under cut grass on more than one occasion they were broken, she even broke them before hiding them so it could be considered an accident. 
The girl I knew, did come out with lots of stories about her home life, mostly bad, no idea if any of this was true, and it was a time before children's complaints were taken seriously or even listened to by adults. 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing to look back and understand that there was underlying reasons for the way she acted, and teaching children to be empathetic to others is fantastic, but let's not forget the Peter's of this world that had to go home umpteen times with broken glasses, and how one girl affected his childhood.

suejb2

You’re not in a position to influence this girl but with your own daughter you can. Not saying you don’t do the following but I’m just mentioning them. Kindness, caring, empathy you know what I mean. There maybe more behind this girl’s actions (family life) but there are also  the dynamics within the group.
 My daughter suffered something similar at school.I needed and wanted to help her understand. I read  queen-bees-and-wannabes-for-the-facebook-generation and, although it’s American I gleaned some useful bits from it.

pollyanna_26

Spendless said:

pollypenny said:

Typical girls' bullying, which can continue for life. Girls' bullying us so much more difficult for schools to deal with than boys, who tend to fight and it's ended. 

Ensure her behaviour doesn't upset your daughter, by boosting her confidence. 

Yes, I agree. Mine ended up with Camhs for suicidal ideation due to what's being described here. And she was over double the age you're talking about OP.
And the school was rubbish in dealing with it. They wanted to pretend the situation wasn't happening and it was down to my child having special needs (she doesn't have SEN).

I can empathise with your experience Spendless. My first port of call was the school which the pupils at the primary I taught in moved to aged 11. Head of year pretty well laughed and called my daughter a liar. There had been two incidents when I was phoned to let me know dd had been taken to A&E by a teacher. I had a long discussion with the Head who wasn't interested. I gave up wasting my breath and wrote two letters one to local education dept and one to the school informing them I was formally removing my dd from education and home educating.

it took just over 20 years of intensive counselling attempts to undo the damage. To try to cope she'd used bad coping methods, self harm , developed eating disorders etc. She had months of inpatient stays in an adolescent eating disorders many miles from home. Numerous admissions to a&e our local mental health unit etc.

She was left with PTSD, Agoraphobia , Severe Anxiety,and a hatred of herself and poor bodily image it's only in the last few years she's recovered from the eating disorders. They wrecked her already poor physical health.

There were times we feared we feared we'd lose her.

I hope your daughter managed to make her way through. It's like talking to the wall dealing with Camhs but you're forced to go through the motions.

It isn't "Kids" being "Kids" It's cruel and damaging. It reminded me of some members of the animal kingdom attacking the weakest when they can't keep up with the herd.

I've only once lost my temper on the forums. Someone I considered a good friend had been on a weight loss diet and posted "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" I'm afraid I just saw red . That throwaway remark from Kate Moss wrecked lives. Parents and health professionals have spend a long time over many years trying to cope with the fallout.

My friend apologised on the thread , took the post down and sent me pms . She was upset but didn't understand why I was.

polly

ETA Apologies for the typos . What my dd went through still makes me upset and angry. THe headteacher denied there was any bullying in his school. The number of youngsters under Adolescent health care in the area who attended that school proved that to be a lie. He was protecting the reputation.

ryan7

Thanks for the varied replys. It's helpful to read . At the weekend I had to go find my DD as she went out without her coat only to find her crying because that child decided she only wanted to play with one friend and not my DD - even though she knocked the door 30 mins earlier asking for my DD to go out (She couldn't at the time as she was having lunch).
I asked the girl, "What's the problem here...?, do you no longer want to play with DD?". She refused to respond or look at me.
The other girls parent happened to be in ear shot and told her child to include my DD as she was on the receiving end of this behaviour last week. 
Its this one kid who is manipulative at a very young age. There was a similar scenario in my garden the week before were she lied to me about an instance that did not happen as I could see/hear from the window. 
The girl does have a difficult family home; the mother has spoken to my partner about her behaviour and how they struggle to cope. 
I think there is something in what someone said before about that need for undivided attention.
My DD knows it's unacceptable. Without being bias, she is kind, considerate, thoughtful, all the things you want your child to be which was echoed in her recent school report card. 
She knows the behaviour from her friend is not acceptable but she is willing to tolerate because she's desperate to join in and be outside playing. 
I struggle with balancing this want with my wife completely removing her and bringing her in... 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

74jax

ryan7 said:

Thanks for the varied replys. It's helpful to read . At the weekend I had to go find my DD as she went out without her coat only to find her crying because that child decided she only wanted to play with one friend and not my DD - even though she knocked the door 30 mins earlier asking for my DD to go out (She couldn't at the time as she was having lunch).
I asked the girl, "What's the problem here...?, do you no longer want to play with DD?". She refused to respond or look at me.
The other girls parent happened to be in ear shot and told her child to include my DD as she was on the receiving end of this behaviour last week. 
Its this one kid who is manipulative at a very young age. There was a similar scenario in my garden the week before were she lied to me about an instance that did not happen as I could see/hear from the window. 
The girl does have a difficult family home; the mother has spoken to my partner about her behaviour and how they struggle to cope. 
I think there is something in what someone said before about that need for undivided attention.
My DD knows it's unacceptable. Without being bias, she is kind, considerate, thoughtful, all the things you want your child to be which was echoed in her recent school report card. 
She knows the behaviour from her friend is not acceptable but she is willing to tolerate because she's desperate to join in and be outside playing. 
I struggle with balancing this want with my wife completely removing her and bringing her in... 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

As horrid as it is, this seems usual (though completely not nice), and it could very well continue throughout school. 
I'm saying this as a female and with a daughter. 
All you can do is keep reinforcing 'be kind' to your daughter, she might change her friend group, she might not. 

pollypenny

74jax said:

ryan7 said:

Thanks for the varied replys. It's helpful to read . At the weekend I had to go find my DD as she went out without her coat only to find her crying because that child decided she only wanted to play with one friend and not my DD - even though she knocked the door 30 mins earlier asking for my DD to go out (She couldn't at the time as she was having lunch).
I asked the girl, "What's the problem here...?, do you no longer want to play with DD?". She refused to respond or look at me.
The other girls parent happened to be in ear shot and told her child to include my DD as she was on the receiving end of this behaviour last week. 
Its this one kid who is manipulative at a very young age. There was a similar scenario in my garden the week before were she lied to me about an instance that did not happen as I could see/hear from the window. 
The girl does have a difficult family home; the mother has spoken to my partner about her behaviour and how they struggle to cope. 
I think there is something in what someone said before about that need for undivided attention.
My DD knows it's unacceptable. Without being bias, she is kind, considerate, thoughtful, all the things you want your child to be which was echoed in her recent school report card. 
She knows the behaviour from her friend is not acceptable but she is willing to tolerate because she's desperate to join in and be outside playing. 
I struggle with balancing this want with my wife completely removing her and bringing her in... 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

As horrid as it is, this seems usual (though completely not nice), and it could very well continue throughout school. 
I'm saying this as a female and with a daughter. 
All you can do is keep reinforcing 'be kind' to your daughter, she might change her friend group, she might not. 

Absolutely. This manipulative child will very likely grow up to be a manipulative woman. Some years I found that I was suddenly left out of anything organised by X. It took me ages trying to work out why, sometimes appearing as a hanger-on, otherwise shrugging it off, not without a few tears. 

It was only when X organised a big 60th for another colleague, leaving another friend out that I saw her for what she was ( still is): a prime drama-queen and bossy boots, who has a new 'best friend' every few years. 

OP, I'd encourage your daughter to keep her at arm's length. 

Comms69

pollyanna_26 said:

Comms69 said:

Sounds like you're reading too much into typical kid behaviour. 

I have to disagree with this. You may view it as typical kid behaviour but it's unacceptable behaviour. My children never bullied others.

These things are often overlooked because people often view young children as harmless who may change as they grow older.

My middle daughter is a senior child safeguarding officer who could give you facts and figures on outcomes for youngsters who were neglected or left to do as they wanted when growing up.

However young the child they need to learn how to treat others. Parents and carers have a duty of care to ensure that happens.

The courts in the UK deal with those who moved from being a school bully to moving to physical and emotional violence whether to wives, partners or their own children. All those attacking strangers or knifing a youngster they don't know became that way over a number of years.

I'm wondering how the parents of the OPs daughters friend deal with the situation. Do they ignore it or fail to recognise the fact their daughter manipulates other children.

To quote Aristotle. "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man"

Follow your instincts OP. She's your child and in your shoes I would be concerned.

At the moment you can't physically remove your child from her friends but laying down guidelines will hopefully equip her to understand what is and isn't acceptable behaviour . Just as we teach ourchildren how to tie their shoelaces and cross the road safely it's part of upbringing.

polly

That's for her parents to sort out, not the OP. 
I'm not however overlooking it, rather seeing it as a life lesson. These are best learned young, when the effects are frankly minimal. 

[Deleted User]

At primary school one girl told the whole class not to speak to me and that's what they did, completely excluded me.  After a day or two one girl announced in the playground, "my mum says I'm allowed to talk to whoever I want," and she did.  Maybe you could say something similar to your daughter.