Mobile Phone provider charging for Facetime audio calls

[Deleted User]

DCFC79 said: 

GrumpyDil said:

That makes absolutely no sense so I think you need to ask for that in writing. If the recipient's WiFi or data connection dropped I would expect the call to terminate.

So would I, something doesnt sound right.

The only thing I can think off is the mobile carrier is able to detect that data connection has been lost and then switch over to regular call. But then again that would need to be instant. 

I’d definitely want to see this in the terms and conditions and a clear written statement from them on how it works. 

Neil_Jones

Android has an option to "connect to data when wifi unavailable" or similar.  I dare say iOS may have something similar for iPhones.

As to "The mobile phone company stated that if the person I am calling wifi drops I can end up with an international call via my phone carrier" - that doesn't sound at all  right.  If their wifi drops then a Facetime call (similar to Zoom, WhatsApp, etc) will simply disconnect.  Wifi isn't the same thing as a telephone call, its basically down the internet side of things.

I think its far more likely that what's happened is data has been used instead of wifi without realising it.  Facetime doesn't use that much data for its video side of things, and even less if it was just an audio call.  You would have to be on Facetime audio only all day every day for days on end to rack up that kind of usage.

Carrot007

Neil_Jones said:

Wifi isn't the same thing as a telephone call, its basically down the internet side of things

I agree with all your comments except this. Wifi is the same as a call on a mobile phone. It is all data. 1G where it was analogue was switched of many many years ago. I got a 2G phone in 1995. That was all data. Same with text messages (though 2g did transmit those on a weird long range mid band not used for other things as I recall, but still data (probably still does)).

If you had said it's data but they charge differently then I agree, they do.

As for what they said to you. Some call centre person with no idea how anything works just made something up. Escalate go to the papers. Annoy them on twitter. However you could also be getting the wrong end of the stick. Or actually made some international calls which are nothing to do with facetime. Maybe post a redacted or your personal data and show us where the charges are. Yes I know the mobile comanies really try not to give you one these days. Might be worth paying for one to seewhat is going on if the simplified version makes no sense, though that should show enough.

Neil_Jones

Carrot007 said:

Neil_Jones said:

Wifi isn't the same thing as a telephone call, its basically down the internet side of things

I agree with all your comments except this. Wifi is the same as a call on a mobile phone. It is all data. 1G where it was analogue was switched of many many years ago. I got a 2G phone in 1995. That was all data. Same with text messages (though 2g did transmit those on a weird long range mid band not used for other things as I recall, but still data (probably still does)).

If you had said it's data but they charge differently then I agree, they do.

There is a difference between wifi that is effectively the gateway to the internet, and mobile data which goes over the mobile phone network as another gateway to the internet.

Technically yes, it is all data, but at the end of the day the same principle applies, Wifi and phone calls are treated by the device (and possibly the network) as two separate things.  For the Facetime and other apps, its all about getting online.  If that's by wifi, there is no charge (to the phone account anyway).  If its by data it's subject to data charges (if any, depending on your tariff).

In any event, the mobile phone was originally only intended for calls. Text messaging came later, and data access came much later after that.  Most of that was effectively a technical bodge at the network level.  Even adding broadband onto home lines is a technical bodge, adding it into a system dating from the 1940s that was only ever designed for voice, and not for pumping petabytes of data all over the place.

[Deleted User]

maudgonne said:

Thank you all for your comments. Yes I will definitely put a cap on my mobile phone cellular usage in future. Just to clarify I did not hit the wrong button. The mobile phone company stated that if the person I am calling wifi drops I can end up with an international call via my phone carrier. It did not use data which would not have created a bill of this size. I am currently in dispute with the mobile phone company and remain curious if this has happened to others. 

Check your recent call history in the phone app in your iPhone, this will confirm that you dialled a normal call rather than Facetime. It is possible to do this from the Facetime app if you press the "i" button to bring up the contact info.

It is impossible for a Facetime audio call to revert to a mobile carrier call during the call, the call must have started as a carrier call.

Your mobile phone company don't even know you are making a Facetime call if you are on Wifi, it doesn't touch their network, only your ISP is carrying the data and they have no idea what that data is because it is encrypted. 

Even if you were using mobile data rather than Wifi, your mobile company would only see an encrypted stream of data leaving your phone so it would be impossible for them to change it to a normal call even if wifi / data signal drops - they have no idea what that data is and where it was going.

Even if they could magically swap you from Facetime to carrier call, the call would need to be routed through the normal phone network and would have to ring out again and be answered by the receiver.

Just swallow this one as a lesson learnt and be grateful they are giving you half back.

[Deleted User]

Question for the people who know.

I don’t have it but I have heard of mobile companies offering WiFi calling where you can use your phone as normal over WiFi in case you have a poor network signal. The wifi calling still comes out of your monthly allowance 

Could this cause the issue or confusion?

Carrot007

Deleted_User said:

Question for the people who know.

I don’t have it but I have heard of mobile companies offering WiFi calling where you can use your phone as normal over WiFi in case you have a poor network signal. The wifi calling still comes out of your monthly allowance 

Could this cause the issue or confusion?

No becuase facetime does not make network calls.

Carrot007

Neil_Jones said:

In any event, the mobile phone was originally only intended for calls. Text messaging came later, and data access came much later after that.  Most of that was effectively a technical bodge at the network level.  Even adding broadband onto home lines is a technical bodge, adding it into a system dating from the 1940s that was only ever designed for voice, and not for pumping petabytes of data all over the place.

That is only true of the 1G mobile network. 2G onwards was a data network regarless of what that data represented (sent data at the speedy rate of 9.6kb/s). It was (and still is) not possible to make a voice call on it (it's sampled into a codec, many phones from 1995 let you change the codec to choose the quality (if network suported it)).

Home lines are a diffferent thing and it really is impolite to call improvements a bodge. Someone out there had that idea. Not everything needs to be burnt down and started again.

Neil_Jones

Deleted_User said:

Question for the people who know.

I don’t have it but I have heard of mobile companies offering WiFi calling where you can use your phone as normal over WiFi in case you have a poor network signal. The wifi calling still comes out of your monthly allowance 

Could this cause the issue or confusion?

You're mixing two different things there.

Wifi calling (which is offered by some providers and was offered by others) is the means of using a Wifi connection to make a telephone call in the absence of a mobile signal.  This is usually a feature either of the phone or a third party app.  Where its available its charged at normal telephone rate tariffs.

The issues your thread is about is Facetime, which doesn't make network calls.  It just connects via Wifi (or data), and connects to another Facetime user.  That is "the" call, except its not charged as a call.  Some of these services can be used as telephone services (Skype definitely can if you pay for it).

[Deleted User]

Neil_Jones said:

Deleted_User said:

Question for the people who know.

I don’t have it but I have heard of mobile companies offering WiFi calling where you can use your phone as normal over WiFi in case you have a poor network signal. The wifi calling still comes out of your monthly allowance 

Could this cause the issue or confusion?

You're mixing two different things there.

Wifi calling (which is offered by some providers and was offered by others) is the means of using a Wifi connection to make a telephone call in the absence of a mobile signal.  This is usually a feature either of the phone or a third party app.  Where its available its charged at normal telephone rate tariffs.

The issues your thread is about is Facetime, which doesn't make network calls.  It just connects via Wifi (or data), and connects to another Facetime user.  That is "the" call, except its not charged as a call.  Some of these services can be used as telephone services (Skype definitely can if you pay for it).

I already knew how facetime works. Just trying to figure out how a mobile network would charge such a rate. Currently I’m still in the camp of user error and wondering if the WiFi calling could have been a confusing issue.