Too fat for my uniform

Takmon

TBagpuss said:

Takmon said:

Masomnia said:

Silvertabby said:

dinglebert said:

HOWEVER - there is one interesting case of regulated discrimination - as recent as 2017 (and it may still be the case), it was impossible for a male/man to train and become a Mammographer. No other reason, you are a man, you can't do this, but it was covered by regulations that I cant be bothered to find/link but just use Google if you are interested.

I knew there was a reason why I wasn't getting an interview.

Some years ago, I did a course that included an element of employment law.  One example was a lingerie shop who advertised for a bra fitter, only women applicants accepted.  This was legal at the time (still is?) but a man made a fuss about 'discrimination'. 

 He didn't win - probably because when asked why he wanted this job, he replied 'because I love tits'.  

You can justify that sort of discrimination if you can show it's a 'proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim', and if it's a job like bra fitting that involves intimate contact with someone else you can show it's a legitimate aim to just want women for that role, as female customers will usually only want a woman doing it; same with mammography. Where the law would stand now with a trans woman would be interesting.

Back to the OP I think you just need to ask nicely for a larger size uniform and don't be embarrassed about it. Obesity can count as a disability under the Equality Act, depending on the circumstances, but I wouldn't go in guns blazing with that.

So using the same logic if customers only wanted white people doing it then do you think that would mean the employer could reject all applications from non white people?. I don't see how customer preference would trump discrimination law.

Because there is a specific exemption built into the law  which recognises that there are some situations where it is legitimate to discriminate. Other examples include permitting employers to recruit women as rape counsellors or  staff at women's refuges,  to recruit gay men for jobs counselling / supporting vulnerable young men facing discrimination due to their orientation, to recruit men from certain ethnic groups  for gang prevention work where young men of similar backgrounds are targeted and so on.

With regard to bra fittings, again, it's stronger then preference - in a bra fitting you are in a vulnerable position and given the prevalence of sexist behavior, and the extremely high proportion of women's who have experienced sexual assault and sexual harassment it is a proportionate response.  

Yes i agree that there are some situations where it is legitimate to discriminate, but in a bra fitting you are in a less vulnerable position that being intimately examined by a doctor but these kinds of examinations are carried out all the time by male doctors when the patient is female.

elsien

[Deleted User] said:

elsien said:

Parent bought a bra off a market stall abroad. Chap (without warning) cupped both boobs and told her what size he thought. To be fair, he did get it right. 

Sounds like an assault.

Parent didn't think so, she was quite amused by it. 

KatrinaWaves

Takmon said:

TBagpuss said:

Takmon said:

Masomnia said:

Silvertabby said:

dinglebert said:

HOWEVER - there is one interesting case of regulated discrimination - as recent as 2017 (and it may still be the case), it was impossible for a male/man to train and become a Mammographer. No other reason, you are a man, you can't do this, but it was covered by regulations that I cant be bothered to find/link but just use Google if you are interested.

I knew there was a reason why I wasn't getting an interview.

Some years ago, I did a course that included an element of employment law.  One example was a lingerie shop who advertised for a bra fitter, only women applicants accepted.  This was legal at the time (still is?) but a man made a fuss about 'discrimination'. 

 He didn't win - probably because when asked why he wanted this job, he replied 'because I love tits'.  

You can justify that sort of discrimination if you can show it's a 'proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim', and if it's a job like bra fitting that involves intimate contact with someone else you can show it's a legitimate aim to just want women for that role, as female customers will usually only want a woman doing it; same with mammography. Where the law would stand now with a trans woman would be interesting.

Back to the OP I think you just need to ask nicely for a larger size uniform and don't be embarrassed about it. Obesity can count as a disability under the Equality Act, depending on the circumstances, but I wouldn't go in guns blazing with that.

So using the same logic if customers only wanted white people doing it then do you think that would mean the employer could reject all applications from non white people?. I don't see how customer preference would trump discrimination law.

Because there is a specific exemption built into the law  which recognises that there are some situations where it is legitimate to discriminate. Other examples include permitting employers to recruit women as rape counsellors or  staff at women's refuges,  to recruit gay men for jobs counselling / supporting vulnerable young men facing discrimination due to their orientation, to recruit men from certain ethnic groups  for gang prevention work where young men of similar backgrounds are targeted and so on.

With regard to bra fittings, again, it's stronger then preference - in a bra fitting you are in a vulnerable position and given the prevalence of sexist behavior, and the extremely high proportion of women's who have experienced sexual assault and sexual harassment it is a proportionate response.  

Yes i agree that there are some situations where it is legitimate to discriminate, but in a bra fitting you are in a less vulnerable position that being intimately examined by a doctor but these kinds of examinations are carried out all the time by male doctors when the patient is female.

Medicine is extremely regulated and requires a heck of a lot of training. Bra fitting... not so much. Plus you can request a doctor or nurse if whatever gender if you prefer, it just may make your wait longer. 

bradders1983

The OP hasnt even logged in since the day this was started, I doubt its a real dilemma.

wilfred30

bradders1983 said:

The OP hasnt even logged in since the day this was started, I doubt its a real dilemma.

Maybe she just gave her head a shake and realised (along with everyone else) that all she had to do was ask for a bigger uniform 

Takmon

KatrinaWaves said:

Takmon said:

TBagpuss said:

Takmon said:

Masomnia said:

Silvertabby said:

dinglebert said:

HOWEVER - there is one interesting case of regulated discrimination - as recent as 2017 (and it may still be the case), it was impossible for a male/man to train and become a Mammographer. No other reason, you are a man, you can't do this, but it was covered by regulations that I cant be bothered to find/link but just use Google if you are interested.

I knew there was a reason why I wasn't getting an interview.

Some years ago, I did a course that included an element of employment law.  One example was a lingerie shop who advertised for a bra fitter, only women applicants accepted.  This was legal at the time (still is?) but a man made a fuss about 'discrimination'. 

 He didn't win - probably because when asked why he wanted this job, he replied 'because I love tits'.  

You can justify that sort of discrimination if you can show it's a 'proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim', and if it's a job like bra fitting that involves intimate contact with someone else you can show it's a legitimate aim to just want women for that role, as female customers will usually only want a woman doing it; same with mammography. Where the law would stand now with a trans woman would be interesting.

Back to the OP I think you just need to ask nicely for a larger size uniform and don't be embarrassed about it. Obesity can count as a disability under the Equality Act, depending on the circumstances, but I wouldn't go in guns blazing with that.

So using the same logic if customers only wanted white people doing it then do you think that would mean the employer could reject all applications from non white people?. I don't see how customer preference would trump discrimination law.

Because there is a specific exemption built into the law  which recognises that there are some situations where it is legitimate to discriminate. Other examples include permitting employers to recruit women as rape counsellors or  staff at women's refuges,  to recruit gay men for jobs counselling / supporting vulnerable young men facing discrimination due to their orientation, to recruit men from certain ethnic groups  for gang prevention work where young men of similar backgrounds are targeted and so on.

With regard to bra fittings, again, it's stronger then preference - in a bra fitting you are in a vulnerable position and given the prevalence of sexist behavior, and the extremely high proportion of women's who have experienced sexual assault and sexual harassment it is a proportionate response.  

Yes i agree that there are some situations where it is legitimate to discriminate, but in a bra fitting you are in a less vulnerable position that being intimately examined by a doctor but these kinds of examinations are carried out all the time by male doctors when the patient is female.

Medicine is extremely regulated and requires a heck of a lot of training. Bra fitting... not so much. Plus you can request a doctor or nurse if whatever gender if you prefer, it just may make your wait longer. 

The real problem i have is what is basically being said is that the majority of women don't want a male bra fitter because they believe they could be sexually assaulted. 
Which quite frankly it's awful to think that the majority of women's experiences would make them feel like that and awful that men who would never do anything like that are put into that group. 

Personally I think that the emphasis should be to ensure suitable checks are made on potential candidates instead of just blanket denying the position to men. 

AskAsk

Takmon said:

KatrinaWaves said:

Takmon said:

TBagpuss said:

Takmon said:

Masomnia said:

Silvertabby said:

dinglebert said:

HOWEVER - there is one interesting case of regulated discrimination - as recent as 2017 (and it may still be the case), it was impossible for a male/man to train and become a Mammographer. No other reason, you are a man, you can't do this, but it was covered by regulations that I cant be bothered to find/link but just use Google if you are interested.

I knew there was a reason why I wasn't getting an interview.

Some years ago, I did a course that included an element of employment law.  One example was a lingerie shop who advertised for a bra fitter, only women applicants accepted.  This was legal at the time (still is?) but a man made a fuss about 'discrimination'. 

 He didn't win - probably because when asked why he wanted this job, he replied 'because I love tits'.  

You can justify that sort of discrimination if you can show it's a 'proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim', and if it's a job like bra fitting that involves intimate contact with someone else you can show it's a legitimate aim to just want women for that role, as female customers will usually only want a woman doing it; same with mammography. Where the law would stand now with a trans woman would be interesting.

Back to the OP I think you just need to ask nicely for a larger size uniform and don't be embarrassed about it. Obesity can count as a disability under the Equality Act, depending on the circumstances, but I wouldn't go in guns blazing with that.

So using the same logic if customers only wanted white people doing it then do you think that would mean the employer could reject all applications from non white people?. I don't see how customer preference would trump discrimination law.

Because there is a specific exemption built into the law  which recognises that there are some situations where it is legitimate to discriminate. Other examples include permitting employers to recruit women as rape counsellors or  staff at women's refuges,  to recruit gay men for jobs counselling / supporting vulnerable young men facing discrimination due to their orientation, to recruit men from certain ethnic groups  for gang prevention work where young men of similar backgrounds are targeted and so on.

With regard to bra fittings, again, it's stronger then preference - in a bra fitting you are in a vulnerable position and given the prevalence of sexist behavior, and the extremely high proportion of women's who have experienced sexual assault and sexual harassment it is a proportionate response.  

Yes i agree that there are some situations where it is legitimate to discriminate, but in a bra fitting you are in a less vulnerable position that being intimately examined by a doctor but these kinds of examinations are carried out all the time by male doctors when the patient is female.

Medicine is extremely regulated and requires a heck of a lot of training. Bra fitting... not so much. Plus you can request a doctor or nurse if whatever gender if you prefer, it just may make your wait longer. 

The real problem i have is what is basically being said is that the majority of women don't want a male bra fitter because they believe they could be sexually assaulted. 
Which quite frankly it's awful to think that the majority of women's experiences would make them feel like that and awful that men who would never do anything like that are put into that group. 

Personally I think that the emphasis should be to ensure suitable checks are made on potential candidates instead of just blanket denying the position to men. 

sorry, but i am not having any strange man look at me breasts, let alone fit me bra!  i don't actually mind a male doctor or nurse doing so if they need to do this to treat me, but i think there are lots of women who are more than capable of fitting a bra, so i don't see why it has to be done by a man.

doctors and nurses are less available, and as someone had said, you could still ask for a female doctor or nurse if you so wish.

robatwork

AskAsk said:

sorry, but i am not having any strange man look at me breasts, let alone fit me bra!  i don't actually mind a male doctor or nurse doing so if they need to do this to treat me, but i think there are lots of women who are more than capable of fitting a bra, so i don't see why it has to be done by a man.

doctors and nurses are less available, and as someone had said, you could still ask for a female doctor or nurse if you so wish.

I realise this thread has veered off topic but as the OP has disappeared it's still an interesting employment subject.

So just to get this straight @AskAsk - I don't have personal knowledge what goes on in a bra fitting nor a gynae examination. But from what you say, you're happy to have a man examine your genitalia, but not fit your bra?

AskAsk

robatwork said:

AskAsk said:

sorry, but i am not having any strange man look at me breasts, let alone fit me bra!  i don't actually mind a male doctor or nurse doing so if they need to do this to treat me, but i think there are lots of women who are more than capable of fitting a bra, so i don't see why it has to be done by a man.

doctors and nurses are less available, and as someone had said, you could still ask for a female doctor or nurse if you so wish.

I realise this thread has veered off topic but as the OP has disappeared it's still an interesting employment subject.

So just to get this straight @AskAsk - I don't have personal knowledge what goes on in a bra fitting nor a gynae examination. But from what you say, you're happy to have a man examine your genitalia, but not fit your bra?

yes.  gynaecologists can often be male and so are doctors.  there is a need for medical staff to examine you and treat you and they are limited in number.

fitting a bra is hardly rocket science, so there are so many people that would be able to do the job, therefore i see no reason whatsoever for this job to be given to a man, when there are so many women that can fill the vacancy.  if such a job was available to men, i can imagine you would get a long queue of men applying for this job, particularly as something on the side 

[Deleted User]

AskAsk said:

robatwork said:

AskAsk said:

sorry, but i am not having any strange man look at me breasts, let alone fit me bra!  i don't actually mind a male doctor or nurse doing so if they need to do this to treat me, but i think there are lots of women who are more than capable of fitting a bra, so i don't see why it has to be done by a man.

doctors and nurses are less available, and as someone had said, you could still ask for a female doctor or nurse if you so wish.

I realise this thread has veered off topic but as the OP has disappeared it's still an interesting employment subject.

So just to get this straight @AskAsk - I don't have personal knowledge what goes on in a bra fitting nor a gynae examination. But from what you say, you're happy to have a man examine your genitalia, but not fit your bra?

yes.  gynaecologists can often be male and so are doctors.  there is a need for medical staff to examine you and treat you and they are limited in number.

fitting a bra is hardly rocket science, so there are so many people that would be able to do the job, therefore i see no reason whatsoever for this job to be given to a man, when there are so many women that can fill the vacancy.  if such a job was available to men, i can imagine you would get a long queue of men applying for this job, particularly as something on the side 

Agree.