Don't Lose your Line - BT's New Policy

David_V2

Please be careful to opt-out of BT's Digital Voice implementation if you have a health alarm linked to your landline. BT have been very insensitive to my elderly mother's plight, and Digital Voice is more unreliable if there are power cuts or wifi outages, which would put her life at risk (That's what the alarm company has said to us). It's all very well BT saying don't worry there's an app for the alarm, but a) she's 84 and does not do computers or mobile apps, and b) here in the countryside mobile signals are not too reliable either. BT are a nightmare to deal with, and my mother now has to get a totally new number to revert to a copper landline and be safe. She has me to deal with BT, but God help elderly people on their own as BT really push this on users. It's scandalous in my view, the scant care BT gives people with health alarms, and a BT advisor confessed to me today that BT knows there are issues. Why was a study not carried out first to protect the elderly? The alarm companies have been given scant information, and my mum's told me it's "all trial and error" so be warned, my advice would be to opt out for greater safety if you have a health alarm. Also, if you do change, then you may need to buy a whole new alarm, which BT don't pay for. 

littleboo

Or maybe the alarm company are living in the past or just haven't got themselves organised in time. They would have been well aware of these changes and should have been preparing their products. 

[Deleted User]

littleboo said:

Or maybe the alarm company are living in the past or just haven't got themselves organised in time. They would have been well aware of these changes and should have been preparing their products. 

The alarm companies could just pay for the additional cost of a third party (BT Openreach) retaining the copper network?

Stevek1311

Mister_G said:

Takmon said:

Mister_G said:

Browntoa said:

Do it now or mandatory migration over the next few years . 2025 is the completion date so most of the copper lines will be switched over , without choice , over the next couple of years .

Traditional phone lines are in terminal decline with call volumes way down year on year . Given the option most people would not retain the fixed line . 

I cannot personally remember the last time I made a landline call , I use my mobile or my VoIP app on my mobile.

You need to bear in mind that not all of us, especially those in rural areas, have sufficient mobile coverage for a reliable service.  Coupled with the fact that in rural areas the electricity supply is also less reliable, you could find yourself being unable to make a call in an emergency.  VOIP needs a power supply which, in a power cut, disappears.  Yes, you could run it off of a UPS, but that's another expense.

I rely on wifi calling, as our mobile coverage on any network is almost non-existent.  When we have one of our frequent power cuts, the landline is my only method of communication with the outside world.  So certainly I would not want to loose this until there is a secure alternative.

So if you have frequent power cuts and rely on wifi calling why don't you have a UPS?

Because I have a hard wired landline phone with inclusive calls package.

Same here, IIRC at one point it was the law that you had to have at least one wired phone connected to your phone line.
BT/Open Reach's roll out plan appears to in contravention of OfComs rules specifically rule A 3.2 b which requires:

 "A3.2 Regulated Providers must take all necessary measures to ensure:
(a) the fullest possible availability of the Public Electronic Communications Network and Publicly Available Telephone Services provided by them in the event of catastrophic network breakdown or in cases of force majeure; and
(b) uninterrupted access to Emergency Organisations as part of any Publicly Available Telephone Services offered.'

(I'd post the link but as a new member I can't)

phillw

Stevek1311 said:
Same here, IIRC at one point it was the law that you had to have at least one wired phone connected to your phone line.

BT/Open Reach's roll out plan appears to in contravention of OfComs rules specifically rule A 3.2 b which requires:

 "A3.2 Regulated Providers must take all necessary measures to ensure:
(a) the fullest possible availability of the Public Electronic Communications Network and Publicly Available Telephone Services provided by them in the event of catastrophic network breakdown or in cases of force majeure; and
(b) uninterrupted access to Emergency Organisations as part of any Publicly Available Telephone Services offered.'

(I'd post the link but as a new member I can't)

https://www.bt.com/help/landline/digital-voice--will-my-service-work-in-a-power-cut-

No, your Hub must have power for you to be able to make calls using our Digital Voice service.

If there's a power cut, please make calls using an alternative method, such as a mobile phone.

If you live in an area with poor mobile coverage or somewhere prone to power cuts, you can buy a battery back-up unit (BBU) when ordering Digital Voice or from BT Shop >

There are 2 versions of the Battery Backup unit, one for customers with Copper delivered BB service and one for customers with Fibre to the home delivered Broadband service, be sure to select the correct one. 

If you have a battery back-up unit, both broadband and voice services will continue to work for up to an hour if there's a power cut. Please make sure you keep your battery back-up unit connected to the mains power supply and your Hub powered up. This will make sure it has enough charge if it's needed..

An hour is pretty bad though, that battery must be tiny. I might be tempted to buy a generic UPS for someone who was vulnerable.

This is what BT sell.

https://www.businessdirect.bt.com/products/cyberpower-back-up-for-bt-digital-voice-service--non-fttp--091297-FV54.html

https://www.businessdirect.bt.com/content/uni2/documentation/fv55/cyberpower_bbu__for_fttp.pdf

https://www.businessdirect.bt.com/content/uni2/documentation/fv54/cyberpower_bbu_sh2_(2).pdf

I'm not sure why they think a mobile will be any use, the last power cut I experienced took out the local cell too.

Stevek1311

An hour will cover 90% or more of power cuts and allows someone to make a call if the power cut is causing them issues so I think that's probably OK.

What's not OK is BT expecting customers to pay for UPS that OfCom say they should supply, issuing letters to customers saying 'Things you need to know' and not mentioning the power cut issue and also if the homehub is not where people have their phone (they put my homehub in the garage) then the Digital Voice Adapter that extends the line will also not work in a power cut.   And BT neither sell or intend to supply a UPS for that Adapter.

It's a mess but if BT/Openreach want to save money by killing off the wire network then they should cost it up properly including honouring all their obligations.

Richard_T_

matelodave said:

Our Optical Network Termination is fitted with back up batteries, although only four AA NiMh so I'm not sure how long they'd last However that would rely on the phone being connected via the ONT rather than the router to maintain a telephone service during a power outage. We've still got copper for the landline

Our last two major outages were in excess of  eight hours each, both due to overhead line faults but we do have quite a few short term 5 minutes or less drop outs here in the Cambridgeshire fens.

Perhaps there's an opening for some enterprising suppliers to provide battery-back up units to maintain the router for several hours. I'm seriously contemplating knocking something together to keep the router going.

Its been a while since i last had a powercut, however these have usually been far longer than an hour when its happened.

 Mobile phone reception also seems to die after abut 45 minutes - I usually have good reception and there is a good signal on all the main networks, however after 45 minutes with no power, any good signal soon dies a death.

 With FTTP coming and the copper network going any power cut ( an hour or less is just a blip ) will result in zero phone access either fixed line ( voip over fttp) or mobile.

 Maybe we could have a large flag pole, with a red flag for fire, blue for police, green for ambulance and white for general help

Stevek1311

Richard_T_ said:

  . . . . Maybe we could have a large flag pole, with a red flag for fire, blue for police, green for ambulance and white for general help

A cunning plan no less
But joking aside, a power cut is surely an enhanced risk moment for elderly people either through stress or just stumbling in the dark looking for a torch.  That BT/Openreach don't want to ensure they have a phone line available at such times is going to end in tears.  But not for the accountants.

Richard_T_

Stevek1311 said:

Richard_T_ said:

  . . . . Maybe we could have a large flag pole, with a red flag for fire, blue for police, green for ambulance and white for general help

A cunning plan no less
But joking aside, a power cut is surely an enhanced risk moment for elderly people either through stress or just stumbling in the dark looking for a torch.  That BT/Openreach don't want to ensure they have a phone line available at such times is going to end in tears.  But not for the accountants.

Torch?? most of the older people i know wont be looking for a torch, it will be candles + matches or a lighter and maybe the old camping gaz stove and/or lamp thats not been used since 1980 something or other, but still has a few un pierced cartridges lying around

EssexExile

Whenever I phone the power company to report a power cut they say that as I am "vulnerable" they will fix it as quick as possible. I've no idea why I am vulnerable but I don't argue.