PAS 232 Consultation .... A response

Coupon-mad

TOP_CAT said:

"they fell for it last time (pofa 2012) "
Could someone offer ones opinions or facts on what they were taken in by and how ?
I am on motorists side of the fence  I wont bore  with my negative opinion on ppc,s .
(I did ignore pre 2012 successfully but now am in the ppcpoopot which may well be another thread at a later date .)

OK, what happened last time is that the BPA misled Ministers and scared them that court cases would rise if they didn't get keeper liability, and the BPA was unquestioningly listened-to, as if they were some sort of expert regulator!  Look what actually happened, as a result of the Government handing the BPA what they asked for:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2013/10/court-claims-issued-in-year-after-pofa.html

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=78247

Not only did cases rise exponentially, but the BPA's figure they gave to Government about how many court cases were being filed in 2011 and 2012 was 'a tad out'...by tens of thousands.

The BPA told the Department for Transport (of which the DVLA is an agency) that between 2% and 5% of PCNs issued, ended up in court.  With around 1.8 million PCNs being issued annually at that time, this implied that there were between 36,000 and 90,000 court claims, and it was suggested that bringing in keeper liability would ‘reduce the burden on the courts’.

They repeated an estimate of 30-50,000 court claims to Government which was reported verbatim in the 'Impact Assessment' which read almost throughout: ''The BPA told us this, the BPA told us that...''

As @bargepole pointed out:

''Had the civil servants at the DfT bothered to stroll across the road and talk to their colleagues at the MoJ, they would have discovered, as I did from a simple FOI request, that the total number of claims issued by BPA members in 2011 was just 845. Of these, 49 were listed for hearing, with 25 being dismissed in favour of defendants.

Currently, the number of private PCNs is estimated to be approaching 9 million annually. With court hearings running at the rate of over 11.000, that suggests that over 100,000 claims are being issued annually, with Gladstones accounting for nearly half of those.''

beamerguy

TOP_CAT said:

The posters on here will know exactly what went sideways in a nutshell with pofa2012.
A thread link or some direction would work .

The government listened too much from those who like to scam. POFA2012 will soon be history and the new code will get rid of those who wish to scam.  In reality though, COVID is causing stress and big losses for the parking industry and according to a recent article in the Daily Mail, legals are also suffering.
I am sure the BPA and the scam IPC will be concerned about how many of their paying members will end up on the scrap heap

And as said, the BPA were the damaging factor in POFA which I'm sure the PPC's will be eternally grateful for ..... while it lasted

Snakes_Belly

nosferatu1001 said:

They said it would reduce court action. It didn't. It massively inflated it. It massively inflated the number of people caught out, and expanded the parasite industry.

It depends on the single appeals service. If this is truly independent and the adjudicators have the discretion to make judgmental decisions rather than criteria based then the number of PCN's in the pipeline that could result in court action should be greatly reduced.

The PPC's will try to influence the outcome as they will not want to see any changes.

When they made comments about certain changes not being viable I should have said "take a look at some of the PPC's published accounts and how much the directors are taking in dividends."

Snakes_Belly

I hope that the adjudicators are legally trained and they are not people that are trained up quickly to assess these appeals by a tick sheet. Retired judges would be better who have civil law experience.

Coupon-mad

London Councils did a good job of POPLA in 2013 - 15.  Their Assessors were legally trained.

beamerguy

Snakes_Belly said:

I hope that the adjudicators are legally trained and they are not people that are trained up quickly to assess these appeals by a tick sheet. Retired judges would be better who have civil law experience.

If it's run like the TPT, .... https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/ ...... it will be perfect.
Gone will be POPLA  and the daft idea that if a PPC does not object it's FREE for them.  I think this was just another daft brainchild of the BPA where probably tea boys and girls make a decision
With the new appeals service the PPC's will have to finance it, just like the councils finance the TPT

Of course, then there is the IAS, a Gladstones scam invention where they use a double sided coin with heads on both sides which they use in 95% of appeals ....... heads = rejected

We must all be reminded that in 2011, BBC Watchdog did this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlPjpW_6pGc&ab_channel=taffy056

People should also be reminded that the then BPA CEO was Patrick Troy. This was before the police got him for taking pictures up ladies skirts in a London Train station

And then yet another little Watchdog matter in 2012 about OPS and the BPA .... 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJx4Sl5g57U&ab_channel=taffy056

THE BPA as an organisation is now and has always been a complete disaster

BrownTrout

Coupon-mad said:

London Councils did a good job of POPLA in 2013 - 15.  Their Assessors were legally trained.

i used to love POPLA 

Snakes_Belly

BrownTrout said:

Coupon-mad said:

London Councils did a good job of POPLA in 2013 - 15.  Their Assessors were legally trained.

i used to love POPLA 

Was that when Henry Greenslade was head of POPLA?  

TOP_CAT

Wasnt the guy pictured above... patrick troy convicted of upskirting ?
My point is the BPA needs serious public discrediting .....which the redtop rags live for .
The joe average public needs this to be done or made aware in "laymans ".
I think or wish panorama would do a episode on the PPC,s as the income from these scammers warrants that  alone not to mention the stress, anxiety and financial loss the public endures .

twhitehousescat

in a few mths there will be no need for a PRIVATE organisation , who has members that PAY them to get dvla access , access is at beckon call or how much they pay , dvla access should be down to non private say so