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Credit Limits International (CLI) chasing Italian traffic fine from 5 years ago

Hi.
I've read the newbies stickies and while it covers debt collectors, I didn't see anything specific about CLI or international traffic violations.
In short, after never receiving any notices for the past 4 years, I started receiving letters from CLI about traffic violations (4 violations to be exact) in Lucca Italy in 2015 related to a hire vehicle (I was in Lucca in 2015 though I haven't confirmed exact dates with their violation notices).    After ignoring these letters (as per the sticky about debt collectors), this has now progressed to a letter called a Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims with a Reply Form that gives me 30 days to respond or they may take me to court.   I've spoken to Citizens Advice Bureau who are investigating whether CLI can take me to County Court but either way, I don't feel I can keep ignoring them.   Today I sent off Letter 1 and the CCA from this 3 letter system to get info out of debt collectors or make them go away:  clearyourdebts. co. uk /debt-collectors/3-letter-process/
Besides simply saying "Ignore", can someone explain on what legal basis CLI has no ability to take this to court before I ignore further?   I understand that they've bought international tickets in the hopes that someone pays.   Presumably if they do proceed beyond the LBCCC I should ignore their Reply forms and wait for the CCJ and then follow the steps as outlined in the stickies?   Is there anything I need to know that's different related to a)an international fine and b) one that's 5 years old where I never received the initial notices.

Thanks and apologies if I'm covering similar ground to others; I tried searching for this scenario but nothing came up
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Comments

  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,063
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    edited 13 October 2020 at 9:10PM
    At a guess, this crops up every week.

    Try putting Italian traffic fine in the forum's search facility to see how others have fared.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,135
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     I didn't see anything specific about CLI or international traffic violations.
    Quite possibly because it is just about private parking charges in the UK. If your correspondence is from a debt collector, suggest you ignore it. If it turns out to be anything nastier, this isn't the forum to help. Maybe try LegalBeagles or even engage with a lawyer.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587
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    Problem for them is that if they are applying english law and they purchased the debt, they are obliged by law to inform they purchased it.
    Did they do that ?
  • Johnersh
    Johnersh Posts: 1,287
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    Problem for them is that if they are applying english law and they purchased the debt, they are obliged by law to inform they purchased it.
    Did they do that ?
    Remembering that even then, the rules relating to the contract terms, enforceability and limitation, would still be Italian law. 

    They *may* be able to buy the debt and pursue it in an English court, but their position in proving the claim and asserting why it can be charged to the defendant, could be very difficult indeed.

    If the debt relates to charges imposed by the hire car company and if the contract was made in the UK (prebooked) then the position may, of course be different. That said, my experience is that the likes of Hertz are all too quick to come after the driver under their contract (within a week), slapping on a load of admin fees whilst at it. 
  • Thank you for your responses.  I've looked through the other Italian traffic fine threads and none seem to have escalated to a Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims which according to the sticky means a CCJ is likely.   Yesterday I sent them a letter requesting 
    A copy of the relevant and lawful Terms and Conditions;

    A true and certified copy (NOT photocopy) of the Deed of Assignment (NOT Notice of Assignment);

    A true and certified copy (NOT photocopy) of the Original Credit Agreement;

    a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement 

    So I'm waiting on their response....I'm guessing they'll send me some form of paperwork even if it's not what I asked for.   

    @Johnersh:   the debt doesn't relate to a prebooked car hire...the hire was done in Italy and the hire company nor the local authorities ever pursued me for the fines...had they done that and if I believed they were legitimate fines, I would've paid at the time.   

    I'm simply concerned as I have yet to see anyone say CLI escalated to a likely CCJ so I'm trying to assess how likely that is.   From what you're all saying it sounds like even if this is likely, my best bet is to wait on the CCJ and then start fighting that as per the newbies sticky related to private parking fines in the UK?

  • D_P_Dance
    D_P_Dance Posts: 11,449
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    edited 14 October 2020 at 8:51AM
    1. Have you complained to your MP?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,135
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    my best bet is to wait on the CCJ
    From what you are writing, I'm not sure you understand what a CCJ is. 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Umkomaas said:
    my best bet is to wait on the CCJ
    From what you are writing, I'm not sure you understand what a CCJ is. 
    I'm sure I don't.  What I mean is them filing to get a CCJ and my best bet is to wait for the formal application to respond rather than responding to their "Reply Form".   Presumably me showing I attempted to get full and correct info from them will work to my benefit in defending this should I get a formal request to respond from county court.  
  • D_P_Dance
    D_P_Dance Posts: 11,449
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    IMO they would be insane to issue a court claim.  
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • D_P_Dance said:
    IMO they would be insane to issue a court claim.  
    I sure hope you're right.   I'm just trying to make sure I take the necessary steps so that if they do, I can defend it properly (while also trying to find out if they've ever issued a court claim against anyone else in a similar situation where they've sent this type of letter)
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