Young drivers telematics Black Box algorithm black hole

fc94

The issue with black boxes is that the insurers can put any formula in the algorithm to penalize drivers. Direct Line Telematics makes it so that it is impossible to get a respectable score if one drives in a high traffic area like a city because the 'risk' category is always low. There are 5 scoring categories and the weighting changes so if one category score is bad, the algorithm will give a disproportionate weighting to that category to bring the whole score down. Direct Line will not disclose their methodology so a driver can't improve. There has to be more transparency to the algorithm or Insurers can do anything they want to pad the premium. 

dunstonh

The issue with black boxes is that the insurers can put any formula in the algorithm to penalize drivers.

Or reward the driver.  It works both ways.

 it is impossible to get a respectable score if one drives in a high traffic area like a city because the 'risk' category is always low.

It is harder in rural areas too as pot holes give the impression of collisions.  Plus, many rural roads have higher risks.

There has to be more transparency to the algorithm or Insurers can do anything they want to pad the premium. 

If you don't like it then don't buy it.

rudekid48

Where's the "scam"?  You say yourself that you drive in high risk area...

Sandtree

rudekid48 said:

Where's the "scam"?  You say yourself that you drive in high risk area...

If I have read the OPs post correctly, they say they drive in a low/medium risk area and as such the standard of driving needs to be higher than if they were driving in a high risk area to achieve the same score. Therefore they are less likely to get the higher score which results in the lower premiums, a fact they would be unaware of before buying and similarly a matter that could change at the insurers whim if tomorrow they decided to change the scoring system.

Whilst clearly its not a "scam" there probably is more uncertainty on what the end premium for the year is going to be than most people recognise when buying these policies. "Good driving" is subjective and as FC94 says, in theory hitting potholes could be an issue which is not so bad for me in central London but when visiting my nearest cousin their private road is one giant pothole.

Pricing is commercially sensitive so will never be fully disclosed, maybe it would be nice if the algorithm was locked for the years cover so at least you know you are playing with consistent rules for the duration of the policy. 

dunstonh

Whilst clearly its not a "scam" there probably is more uncertainty on what the end premium for the year is going to be than most people recognise when buying these policies. "Good driving" is subjective and as FC94 says, in theory hitting potholes could be an issue which is not so bad for me in central London but when visiting my nearest cousin their private road is one giant pothole.

I tested telemetrics some years back for a company.    It was put in my Land Rover Defender.   Every few miles it recorded me as having a crash because of the bouncy nature of the car.   Also, we live at the end of a private lane.   It recorded it as driving in a field and well as having multiple crashes.   There are flaws in these systems and some vehicles/locations are not suited to them.

Sandtree

dunstonh said:
I tested telemetrics some years back for a company.    It was put in my Land Rover Defender.   Every few miles it recorded me as having a crash because of the bouncy nature of the car.   Also, we live at the end of a private lane.   It recorded it as driving in a field and well as having multiple crashes.   There are flaws in these systems and some vehicles/locations are not suited to them.

I had conversations with a company at one point who wanted to do a deal, back in the days when the black box had to be professionally fitted, where they'd install the boxes and provide us the data for free in exchange for our T&Cs enabling them to retain a copy of the data for their own purposes. Didnt want one in my own car, didnt fancy doing a young drivers insurance product and was concerned about the barrier of having to have a professional out to fit the box. 

Never went forward with it and then moved mainly into commercial lines and back office than personal lines NPD

fc94

Fair enough - thank you for your comments. I am trying to withdraw the word 'scam'. But by virtue of the algorithm and the lack of transparency which means the driver will never know how to improve their score because the weightings move, it is incredibly deceptive and is not disclosed prior to taking out a policy. Correct in that the black box things speed bumps are an indication of too much starting and stopping, and pot holes are an indication of poor smooth driving. If the speed limit is 20, and the rest of the traffic is driving 30, you get penalized for 'comparative speed' because you are driving slower than the flow of traffic ie in order to get a higher score, you would have to speed. 

chrisw

fc94 said:

If the speed limit is 20, and the rest of the traffic is driving 30, you get penalized for 'comparative speed' because you are driving slower than the flow of traffic ie in order to get a higher score, you would have to speed. 

This isn't the case, the black box would not know the comparative speeds and speeding isn't legal just because 'everybody's doing it'. Maybe this is why your struggling with scores.

Some companies appear to be more strict than others, reading reviews should give some idea of which ones. My son looked at More Than but a lot of reviews complained about threatening letters, whereas Tesco didn't appear as strict. He went with Tesco in the end and never heard a peep from them.

fc94

Sorry Chris. It is absolutely the case. This is what the insurer said to me. The data on comparative speeds is indeed collected so the insurance company can compare your son's driving speed to others. The box has no idea what the speed limits are in any area, it only knows how fast or slow you drive compared to others. This explanation comes directly from the insurer. Speeding is not legal but the box only gauges how fast you are driving vs the others on the same road. 

chrisw

I'm afraid the insurer is wrong or you have misunderstood them. The black boxes work on GPS so the box knows the location of the car at any time, the time, the speed of the car and knows the speed limit on any particular road. These are the same things that can be displayed on a sat nav.

Errors occur when the GPS signal is not quite fixed properly and the software puts the car on the nearest road, so you can be doing 70 on the motorway but the software may temporarily put you on an adjacent 30 road and think you're speeding.

The black boxes have no idea of the speed of other vehicles, how can they unless the others are also fitted with black boxes? No insurance company would or could encourage breaking the speed limit.

fc94

There is no mistake. Major insurance companies supply a central database called Trackmate with the speed of vehicles they insure and which are equipped with black boxes.  This  data is then collated and redistributed to the insurance companies so they can compare your speed with the average. Black boxes do not know the speed limit anywhere, only comparative speed.