Should the Government act NOW to reform leasehold? LEASEHOLD SCANDAL

Katiejane13uk

spoovy said:

Maybe time to move this discussion on?  What would this campaign like to happen next?  Ban any new leasehold contracts in future presumably?  What should happen to existing arrangements; should they remain as they are or be converted to freehold or something else? Should current freeholders be compensated for their loss?

Have you read what the campaign is asking for?  The government have already said they are going to legislate to BAN future leasehold houses.  They have also committed to legislating to set future ground rents to ZERO.  Thats already happening as a direct result of our campaign.  I set up the petition to help push this legislation through.

Regarding the future.  Yes The Law Commission has done extensive reports of how they can legislate to help existing leaseholders and for future tenure to change from that of leasehold to that of Commonhold.  We have 161 MP's signed up to our APPG.  This is a cross party issue.
If leaseholders are fortunate enough to enfranchise and buy their freehold, yes current laws ensure the freeholders are compensated for their loss of income.  This isn't a case of people wanting something for nothing.
The current cases of mis selling is different and the CMA are taking enforcement action against the developers in this instance.

What the campaign is trying to do is change a tenure that has existed for thousands of years to one that is much fairer that is embraced in most other countries around the world.

Comms69

Katiejane13uk said:

spoovy said:

Maybe time to move this discussion on?  What would this campaign like to happen next?  Ban any new leasehold contracts in future presumably?  What should happen to existing arrangements; should they remain as they are or be converted to freehold or something else? Should current freeholders be compensated for their loss?

Have you read what the campaign is asking for?  The government have already said they are going to legislate to BAN future leasehold houses.  They have also committed to legislating to set future ground rents to ZERO.  Thats already happening as a direct result of our campaign.  I set up the petition to help push this legislation through.

Regarding the future.  Yes The Law Commission has done extensive reports of how they can legislate to help existing leaseholders and for future tenure to change from that of leasehold to that of Commonhold.  We have 161 MP's signed up to our APPG.  This is a cross party issue.
If leaseholders are fortunate enough to enfranchise and buy their freehold, yes current laws ensure the freeholders are compensated for their loss of income.  This isn't a case of people wanting something for nothing.
The current cases of mis selling is different and the CMA are taking enforcement action against the developers in this instance.

What the campaign is trying to do is change a tenure that has existed for thousands of years to one that is much fairer that is embraced in most other countries around the world.

Real shame adults in this country need their hand holding.

SpiderLegs

I just admit to some sympathy for people who have had the misfortune to buy an overpriced leasehold shoebox on a modern housing estate. It can’t be great if that’s your only perceived option for home
ownership but welcome to the UK in 2020.
leasehold flats, who cares, but houses is a bit rough. Clearly the law around this needs to be cleaned up a bit.

and the suggestion that these people knowingly signed up to a process that saw them get shat on from a great height by developers is a little unfair despite what some know-it-all posters seem to think.

however it’s unfortunate that social media led campaigns like this always attract the worst kind of bell ends who just turn up to spout nonsensical drivel at anyone who holds a counter view. I’m off to check out this petition as that always lightens the mood.

edit. To be fair 12.5k is not a bad number, although most of them are scousers so I’ll let others decide if there’s an IQ correlation anywhere there 😂.
not long before it beats ‘bring back the death penalty’ 

NameUnavailable

Amazing the attitude of some on here. Do adults need hand-holding? It's not about that it's about a fair process.

Most EA's I'm talking to dont even understand some basic principles of leaseholds so how can buyers be expected to know more? Most people really don't understand what they're potentially getting into and EA's and solicitors don't explain it to them. You almost need to do a degree on the subject before buying!

There are many 'tripwires' with a leasehold property so I do sympathise and do agree that the Govt. need to amend the law asap.

eddddy

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

eddddy said:

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

 People know lease length etc but if you're told you can buy the freehold for a small fee and you're no longer a leaseholder then great but the developers lied and sold the freeholds on. Looking into leasehold as a whole is a joke so we all fight for change.... That's the bottom line and we should all support this. 

That's not a problem with leaseholds, that's a problem with developers who tell lies.

I could equally say "Buy my freehold house for £300k and you can buy the freehold garden for £2k later".

Then after you've bought the house...

• I say "actually the garden will cost £50k"
• Or I sell the garden to somebody else, who says "I'll sell you the garden for £50k"

And you're left with a hugely devalued house, because it has no garden.


It seems like there's a lack of real analysis and explanation in this thread, which means it doesn't really help anyone.

Thanks Eddddy so you agree we were mis-sold.

Obviously you were "mis-sold" - based on what you say happened.

If a developer tells you incorrect information in the way you describe, they're breaking Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations - which is a criminal offence (assuming it happened after 2014).

If they did it with dishonest intent, arguably it's 'Fraud by false representation', which is a very serious criminal offence.

But it's nothing to do with leaseholds - the developer could have equally lied to you about freeholds.  If you had started a thread called something like "Developers that mislead buyers", you might have got a more positive response.

rock-on_2

I've read through the posts on this subject and I cannot believe some of the comments from people who have absolutely no idea about the problems leasehold causes.  
Let's just clarify what leasehold property ownership actually means: 
It means you own absolutely nothing, not even a door handle.
You get a mortgage to literally pay rent up front to some greedy landlord who, in the case of flats in particular, can increase service or any other charges to whatever level it feels it can get away with.
This is touted as your home and then you find you have to ask permission in some cases to even re-decorate.  Not only do you have to ask permission but you have to pay for that privilege.  That is buried well within the conditions of any lease and very rarely is this pointed out by any solicitor. If you are not aware this could be an issue how are you supposed to find this within the pages of gobbledegook of a lease?
If these so called 'experts' who call us idiots for getting lumbered with these properties would perhaps actually like to read the leases involved, then and only then should they comment.  Even solicitors have problems interpreting the conditions and often, very often, miss important clauses.  If they have problems what chance do we buyers have? We trust the legal profession to explain the terms and if they don't, as if most often the case, we, the general public and buyers have absolutely no idea of the complexity of these contracts.  These are not simple contracts and anybody who thinks they are should read them first then critisise.
All we are asking for is fairness and justice and for the Law Commission recommendations for Leasehold Reform to be implemented as soon as possible to save any more buyers being misled, mis-sold and systematically ripped off. Is it so very wrong to look for support in this?

eddddy

rock-on_2 said:

I've read through the posts on this subject and I cannot believe some of the comments from people who have absolutely no idea about the problems leasehold causes.  
<snip>

Your post makes you seem as bad as the developers you are so angry about. It's misleading, vague and unhelpful.

You seem to think you're the only one that understands leases.

I'm a leaseholder - I fully understand my lease, and I understand the concept of leasehold. And I understand the reasons for leases being structured in they way they are.

I've done a lease extension, I've been to tribunal, I've been through 3 section 20 consultations, I've had to make a court claim against my freeholder.

So I help other leaseholders (and people contemplating buying leasehold properties) by giving them real advice in this forum, based on my knowledge and experience. And I don't make daft, hysterical comments about not owning a door handle, etc.

If you or others have specific questions about a lease, or the concept of leasehold, maybe start a new thread in this forum, there are many other leaseholders and probably a few 'property professionals' who will share their opinions.

Comms69

NameUnavailable said:

Amazing the attitude of some on here. Do adults need hand-holding? It's not about that it's about a fair process.

Most EA's I'm talking to dont even understand some basic principles of leaseholds so how can buyers be expected to know more? Most people really don't understand what they're potentially getting into and EA's and solicitors don't explain it to them. You almost need to do a degree on the subject before buying!

There are many 'tripwires' with a leasehold property so I do sympathise and do agree that the Govt. need to amend the law asap.

EAs arent the ones spending hundreds of thousands of pounds.....

Comms69

rock-on_2 said:

I've read through the posts on this subject and I cannot believe some of the comments from people who have absolutely no idea about the problems leasehold causes.  
Let's just clarify what leasehold property ownership actually means: 
It means you own absolutely nothing, not even a door handle.
You get a mortgage to literally pay rent up front to some greedy landlord who, in the case of flats in particular, can increase service or any other charges to whatever level it feels it can get away with.
This is touted as your home and then you find you have to ask permission in some cases to even re-decorate.  Not only do you have to ask permission but you have to pay for that privilege.  That is buried well within the conditions of any lease and very rarely is this pointed out by any solicitor. If you are not aware this could be an issue how are you supposed to find this within the pages of gobbledegook of a lease?
If these so called 'experts' who call us idiots for getting lumbered with these properties would perhaps actually like to read the leases involved, then and only then should they comment.  Even solicitors have problems interpreting the conditions and often, very often, miss important clauses.  If they have problems what chance do we buyers have? We trust the legal profession to explain the terms and if they don't, as if most often the case, we, the general public and buyers have absolutely no idea of the complexity of these contracts.  These are not simple contracts and anybody who thinks they are should read them first then critisise.
All we are asking for is fairness and justice and for the Law Commission recommendations for Leasehold Reform to be implemented as soon as possible to save any more buyers being misled, mis-sold and systematically ripped off. Is it so very wrong to look for support in this?

No, you own a lease.....

I have no problems reading contracts. 

ciderboy2009

rock-on_2 said:

I've read through the posts on this subject and I cannot believe some of the comments from people who have absolutely no idea about the problems leasehold causes.  
Let's just clarify what leasehold property ownership actually means: 
It means you own absolutely nothing, not even a door handle.
You get a mortgage to literally pay rent up front to some greedy landlord who, in the case of flats in particular, can increase service or any other charges to whatever level it feels it can get away with.
This is touted as your home and then you find you have to ask permission in some cases to even re-decorate.  Not only do you have to ask permission but you have to pay for that privilege.  That is buried well within the conditions of any lease and very rarely is this pointed out by any solicitor. If you are not aware this could be an issue how are you supposed to find this within the pages of gobbledegook of a lease?
If these so called 'experts' who call us idiots for getting lumbered with these properties would perhaps actually like to read the leases involved, then and only then should they comment.  Even solicitors have problems interpreting the conditions and often, very often, miss important clauses.  If they have problems what chance do we buyers have? We trust the legal profession to explain the terms and if they don't, as if most often the case, we, the general public and buyers have absolutely no idea of the complexity of these contracts.  These are not simple contracts and anybody who thinks they are should read them first then critisise.
All we are asking for is fairness and justice and for the Law Commission recommendations for Leasehold Reform to be implemented as soon as possible to save any more buyers being misled, mis-sold and systematically ripped off. Is it so very wrong to look for support in this?

Once again someone who clearly doesn't read and understand things that they sign.

Leasehold isn't a new thing - my house was built in the 1930's and is leasehold.  Basically a leasehold means that you are buying the right to use that land and the property upon it for a specified period providing that you comply with the conditions that you agree to when you sign it.  I looked into this and made sure I understood it before I bought my first leasehold house.  I also read, and understood, my lease despite it being worded in much more archaic language than current ones.

If you don't understand what you are signing then don't sign it - this applies to life in general.

If your solicitor doesn't understand what you are signing then get a decent solicitor.  If they have missed important clauses then investigate if there was any negligence.

Any charges and potential increases should be detailed in the lease.  If the lease allows them to be increased "... to whatever level it feels it can get away with" then it is a lease that I wouldn't personally have signed.

I fail to see how buyers are buyers are "being misled, mis-sold and systematically ripped off".  It seems to me more like buyers being naive.

I agree that leases with stupid doubling clauses are a rip off but fail to understand why on earth anybody ever agreed to them.  The story of the chessboard and grains of rice comes to mind...