Should the Government act NOW to reform leasehold? LEASEHOLD SCANDAL

simondv

hazyjo said:

Katie, if it was the only way to buy property, I'd get it.

But it's not. 

Great you're campaigning for something which I agree needs changing. I'm in no way defending leasehold, I'm just saying people's lack of knowledge or ignorance of what leasehold actually means and what they're spending money on is nobody else's fault. There's nobody to blame them they find something out later which is in their lease.

Its often not in their lease though, and you define "reasonable cost" ? The cost of a lease extension is not specified, hidden commisions, buildings later found to be defective (leaseholders usually cannot survey before buying like with a freehold house) because of developers and government failure.

simondv

Comms69 said:

simondv said:

Comms69 said:

Katiejane13uk said:

Comms69 said:

No. The govt shouldn't get involved in nonsense where people cant read a contract - that's their problem. 

Government ARE involved already.

I’m saying they shouldn’t be. At all.

you have to be an adult to buy a property- if you can’t understand the terms of that purchase, then that’s YOUR fault for agreeing

You have to be an adult to buy a car or fridge. If it catches fire because of a manufacturing defect then that's YOUR fault for agreeing to buy it.

No, you dont. Anyone can buy a fridge or a car. You're proving your ignorance spectacularly though, so thanks...

Anyone can buy a flat in a building with latent build defects due to developer and regulations failure, buyer not able to check beforehand, so no different. You're proving your ignorance spectacularly though, so thanks....

Comms69

simondv said:

Comms69 said:

simondv said:

Comms69 said:

Katiejane13uk said:

Comms69 said:

No. The govt shouldn't get involved in nonsense where people cant read a contract - that's their problem. 

Government ARE involved already.

I’m saying they shouldn’t be. At all.

you have to be an adult to buy a property- if you can’t understand the terms of that purchase, then that’s YOUR fault for agreeing

You have to be an adult to buy a car or fridge. If it catches fire because of a manufacturing defect then that's YOUR fault for agreeing to buy it.

No, you dont. Anyone can buy a fridge or a car. You're proving your ignorance spectacularly though, so thanks...

Anyone can buy a flat in a building with latent build defects due to developer and regulations failure, buyer not able to check beforehand, so no different. You're proving your ignorance spectacularly though, so thanks....

No, ONLY adults can. I think I made that point quite clear. 

And i believe Adults are responsible for their own decisions. 

spoovy

Maybe time to move this discussion on?  What would this campaign like to happen next?  Ban any new leasehold contracts in future presumably?  What should happen to existing arrangements; should they remain as they are or be converted to freehold or something else? Should current freeholders be compensated for their loss?

Comms69

spoovy said:

Maybe time to move this discussion on?  What would this campaign like to happen next?  Ban any new leasehold contracts in future presumably?  What should happen to existing arrangements; should they remain as they are or be converted to freehold or something else? Should current freeholders be compensated for their loss?

I suspect they'd like a govt bail out in the form of compensation. I'll write to my MP and make sure they know i disagree with this campaign. 

davidmcn

simondv said:

Comms69 said:

simondv said:

Comms69 said:

Katiejane13uk said:

Comms69 said:

No. The govt shouldn't get involved in nonsense where people cant read a contract - that's their problem. 

Government ARE involved already.

I’m saying they shouldn’t be. At all.

you have to be an adult to buy a property- if you can’t understand the terms of that purchase, then that’s YOUR fault for agreeing

You have to be an adult to buy a car or fridge. If it catches fire because of a manufacturing defect then that's YOUR fault for agreeing to buy it.

No, you dont. Anyone can buy a fridge or a car. You're proving your ignorance spectacularly though, so thanks...

Anyone can buy a flat in a building with latent build defects due to developer and regulations failure, buyer not able to check beforehand

But those points have got nothing to do with leasehold tenure.

chris_leaseholder_missold

hazyjo said:

Surprised to see so much blame - if I were a solicitor I would not expect to have to explain to someone spending tens or more likely hundreds of thousands of pounds what "leasehold" means or entails.

Surely it's is up to a buyer to be aware of what its meaning and what "years left on a lease" refers to, or "service charge/ground rent"). It's hardly a scam (nor rocket science), it's the way flats are bought in England.

I worked it out aged 21 before the Internet.

Who doesn't expect to have to contribute to future major works? Who do people think pays?!

If you don't like leasehold, don't buy one!

(Leasehold houses are a different discussion.)

Really don't know why I'm biting. It's just so niggly I can't keep it in.

To be honest if I was a solicitor dealing with conveyancing I would first advise not to buy a leasehold, then explain why, then say if you are still going ahead then find out how to purchase the freehold (in my case I was a house buyer from a developer selling leasehold houses). I found out my freehold was sold on behind my back so was fuming with the developer for that. Then I realised my solicitor hadn't told me about this little scam and didn't even try to purchase it at point of sale. After finding out this happened across the nation I thought this scam needs to stop so campaigned to abolish it (as there is no need for it). The solicitors haven't exactly helped in all this but ultimately the source of the issue is the developers and the tenure that still exists. We need to pull together to stop stuff like this from happening. People know lease length etc but if you're told you can buy the freehold for a small fee and you're no longer a leaseholder then great but the developers lied and sold the freeholds on. Looking into leasehold as a whole is a joke so we all fight for change.... That's the bottom line and we should all support this. 

Comms69

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

hazyjo said:

Surprised to see so much blame - if I were a solicitor I would not expect to have to explain to someone spending tens or more likely hundreds of thousands of pounds what "leasehold" means or entails.

Surely it's is up to a buyer to be aware of what its meaning and what "years left on a lease" refers to, or "service charge/ground rent"). It's hardly a scam (nor rocket science), it's the way flats are bought in England.

I worked it out aged 21 before the Internet.

Who doesn't expect to have to contribute to future major works? Who do people think pays?!

If you don't like leasehold, don't buy one!

(Leasehold houses are a different discussion.)

Really don't know why I'm biting. It's just so niggly I can't keep it in.

To be honest if I was a solicitor dealing with conveyancing I would first advise not to buy a leasehold, then explain why, then say if you are still going ahead then find out how to purchase the freehold (in my case I was a house buyer from a developer selling leasehold houses). I found out my freehold was sold on behind my back so was fuming with the developer for that. Then I realised my solicitor hadn't told me about this little scam and didn't even try to purchase it at point of sale. After finding out this happened across the nation I thought this scam needs to stop so campaigned to abolish it (as there is no need for it). The solicitors haven't exactly helped in all this but ultimately the source of the issue is the developers and the tenure that still exists. We need to pull together to stop stuff like this from happening. People know lease length etc but if you're told you can buy the freehold for a small fee and you're no longer a leaseholder then great but the developers lied and sold the freeholds on. Looking into leasehold as a whole is a joke so we all fight for change.... That's the bottom line and we should all support this. 

I'm literally writing to my MP to say I disapprove of this campaign. The reality is that the contract tells you if you can buy the freehold or not.

spoovy

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

To be honest if I was a solicitor dealing with conveyancing I would first advise not to buy a leasehold, then explain why, then say if you are still going ahead then find out how to purchase the freehold (in my case I was a house buyer from a developer selling leasehold houses). I found out my freehold was sold on behind my back so was fuming with the developer for that. Then I realised my solicitor hadn't told me about this little scam and didn't even try to purchase it at point of sale. After finding out this happened across the nation I thought this scam needs to stop so campaigned to abolish it (as there is no need for it). The solicitors haven't exactly helped in all this but ultimately the source of the issue is the developers and the tenure that still exists. We need to pull together to stop stuff like this from happening. People know lease length etc but if you're told you can buy the freehold for a small fee and you're no longer a leaseholder then great but the developers lied and sold the freeholds on. Looking into leasehold as a whole is a joke so we all fight for change.... That's the bottom line and we should all support this. 

If you were told explicitly that you would have the opportunity to buy the freehold at a specific price then you were denied that opportunity that sounds like mis-selling to me (not that I'm an expert on this at all).  If you were mis-sold there is already legislation to deal with this though isn't there?
I agree that maybe leasehold has had it's day and should be phased out, but I don't really see how any of this becomes a giant "we are slaves living under a feudal system" ALL-CAPS scandal.  If you were mis-sold then deal with it as such. If you weren't mis-sold then you made an expensive mistake. I've made expensive mistakes too; who exactly should pay for those?

chris_leaseholder_missold

@comms69 You disapprove of campaigning to remove a feudal tenure and replacing it with a fairer one? That's a bit odd isn't it? You sound like a freeholder or investor who wants to keep the gravy train running. Anyway, my contract does not say if you can buy the freehold or not, in fact, we could have bought the freehold at point of sale if our solicitor had bothered to ask or get it in writing from the developer. We were told by the developer (by law) we had to wait 2 years to buy the freehold which is true if you bought the house and then tried to buy the freehold but we were asking at point of sale but still the same reply. The developer was selling all houses leasehold and 'assumed' we did not want the freehold even though they had already bulked mine and my neighbours freeholds up and sold them to a ground rent investor. Our freehold was literally sold 2 months after we moved in. If that's not a scandal i don't know what is??