Should the Government act NOW to reform leasehold? LEASEHOLD SCANDAL

chris_leaseholder_missold

@spoovy mis-sold yes but how do you deal with a verbal discussion between the developer and solicitor? I will ultimately buy my freehold but after seeing and reading about leasehold i really feel for some people (especially people in flats!). This fight is to make it better for our next generation as we're pretty screwed after what they did to us. The CMA and government are working on change and looking into the unfair practices of developers which is great but why keep it if it isn't working? I have joined to help abolish leasehold or at least change it for the better. The point about slavery is not that you were forced into buying a property but what happens after. You are forced into paying for ever increasing costs that are not 'reasonable' and this is where the slavery bit comes in. Who can pay the master ever increasing sums when you don't have the cash? Eventually you go bankrupt and then the master takes the property (the freeholder). This is the comparison people are making. Look up forfeiture in leasehold and who benefits from that. I'm not even in a terrible position but i don't like being taken advantage of by lying deceiving corporations who think they can take your money and run. My little voice and many others have tried to help and hope we are able to make change happen.

eddddy

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

 People know lease length etc but if you're told you can buy the freehold for a small fee and you're no longer a leaseholder then great but the developers lied and sold the freeholds on. Looking into leasehold as a whole is a joke so we all fight for change.... That's the bottom line and we should all support this. 

That's not a problem with leaseholds, that's a problem with developers who tell lies.

I could equally say "Buy my freehold house for £300k and you can buy the freehold garden for £2k later".

Then after you've bought the house...

• I say "actually the garden will cost £50k"
• Or I sell the garden to somebody else, who says "I'll sell you the garden for £50k"

And you're left with a hugely devalued house, because it has no garden.


It seems like there's a lack of real analysis and explanation in this thread, which means it doesn't really help anyone.

Comms69

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

@comms69 You disapprove of campaigning to remove a feudal tenure and replacing it with a fairer one? That's a bit odd isn't it? You sound like a freeholder or investor who wants to keep the gravy train running. Anyway, my contract does not say if you can buy the freehold or not, in fact, we could have bought the freehold at point of sale if our solicitor had bothered to ask or get it in writing from the developer. We were told by the developer (by law) we had to wait 2 years to buy the freehold which is true if you bought the house and then tried to buy the freehold but we were asking at point of sale but still the same reply. The developer was selling all houses leasehold and 'assumed' we did not want the freehold even though they had already bulked mine and my neighbours freeholds up and sold them to a ground rent investor. Our freehold was literally sold 2 months after we moved in. If that's not a scandal i don't know what is??

nope. I rent. 

But I dont disapprove of campaigning for anything, just dont agree with the aims. I'm literally suggesting campaigning against govt intrusion into private life and private business. 

As for your contract, well who's fault is it that you didnt read it?

chris_leaseholder_missold

eddddy said:

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

 People know lease length etc but if you're told you can buy the freehold for a small fee and you're no longer a leaseholder then great but the developers lied and sold the freeholds on. Looking into leasehold as a whole is a joke so we all fight for change.... That's the bottom line and we should all support this. 

That's not a problem with leaseholds, that's a problem with developers who tell lies.

I could equally say "Buy my freehold house for £300k and you can buy the freehold garden for £2k later".

Then after you've bought the house...

• I say "actually the garden will cost £50k"
• Or I sell the garden to somebody else, who says "I'll sell you the garden for £50k"

And you're left with a hugely devalued house, because it has no garden.


It seems like there's a lack of real analysis and explanation in this thread, which means it doesn't really help anyone.

Thanks Eddddy so you agree we were mis-sold.

Comms69

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

eddddy said:

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

 People know lease length etc but if you're told you can buy the freehold for a small fee and you're no longer a leaseholder then great but the developers lied and sold the freeholds on. Looking into leasehold as a whole is a joke so we all fight for change.... That's the bottom line and we should all support this. 

That's not a problem with leaseholds, that's a problem with developers who tell lies.

I could equally say "Buy my freehold house for £300k and you can buy the freehold garden for £2k later".

Then after you've bought the house...

• I say "actually the garden will cost £50k"
• Or I sell the garden to somebody else, who says "I'll sell you the garden for £50k"

And you're left with a hugely devalued house, because it has no garden.


It seems like there's a lack of real analysis and explanation in this thread, which means it doesn't really help anyone.

Thanks Eddddy so you agree we were mis-sold.

No. Because you should've got it written into the contract....

phillw

Comms69 said:
No. Because you should've got it written into the contract....

That is true, but only because having it in writing means the other party can't claim you're lying.
If you sign a contract because someone told you something that was untrue then it is still miss-selling.
But how would need a recording of the conversation to be able to individually prove it in court, although if there was a class action where everyone reported being told the same thing then it would add some weight to a case.

ciderboy2009

What I don't understand is what the actual concern is with leaseholds as a whole?

Whilst I accept that the modern ones with stupid doubling clauses should have some sort of restriction placed on them, I fail to see the problem with the majority of leaseholds as long as you do your research (which surely anybody would do when making probably the most important and expensive purchase of your life).

I fail to see any problem whatsoever with "older" leaseholds - my current house is about 100 years into a 999 year lease with a near enough peppercorn rent.  I see no reason whatsoever why that needs to change.

Yes, there is a potential for a forfeiture reposession but in reality how often do they occur (apart from with business premises)?  They are actually so rare that I've been unable to find any official stats on them.

Whilst I would always defend a person's right to protest, I feel that the reason for that protest should be worthwhile.  In this case I don't feel that it is.

People need to learn to read and make sure they understand things that they are signing so they don't get caught out by things like this.  Also, if you want to rely on something said to you by a salesman (for anything) then make sure that it is included in the contract you sign.  It's not exactly rocket science!

Why are there so many people in this country nowadays who will always try to pin the blame for their mistakes on others?

chris_leaseholder_missold

Comms69 said:

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

@comms69 You disapprove of campaigning to remove a feudal tenure and replacing it with a fairer one? That's a bit odd isn't it? You sound like a freeholder or investor who wants to keep the gravy train running. Anyway, my contract does not say if you can buy the freehold or not, in fact, we could have bought the freehold at point of sale if our solicitor had bothered to ask or get it in writing from the developer. We were told by the developer (by law) we had to wait 2 years to buy the freehold which is true if you bought the house and then tried to buy the freehold but we were asking at point of sale but still the same reply. The developer was selling all houses leasehold and 'assumed' we did not want the freehold even though they had already bulked mine and my neighbours freeholds up and sold them to a ground rent investor. Our freehold was literally sold 2 months after we moved in. If that's not a scandal i don't know what is??

nope. I rent. 

But I dont disapprove of campaigning for anything, just dont agree with the aims. I'm literally suggesting campaigning against govt intrusion into private life and private business. 

As for your contract, well who's fault is it that you didnt read it?

I meant you sound like it....I didn't mean you were a freeholder/investor. 

You're against government intrusion into private life and business? The government set the laws and allow private business to operate under said laws so of course we have to get them involved in our campaign (unless i misunderstand what you mean).

As for my contract, well, that's what we got a solicitor for but even though the lease is modern the way it is written is still in ye olde english so makes no sense and another reason why buying the freehold was the plan from the start. Once we had that for £4k we would no longer be leasehold...only problem was the developer sold the freehold onto an investor without telling us and then when we asked to buy it back the investor tripled the price and left us in a state of shock. Funny thing is the rest of the country buying these new build houses had all had the same treatment done, 'oddly' (suspicious) from all different house builders. The house builders had somehow found a way to sell the houses to us by promising the freehold after 2 years for a low fee and then once we had bought, flogged the freeholds on and ran. Seems a little naughty don't you think? Oh well government saw the scandal and the Competition and Markets Authority are on the case looking into how the big builders operated so all good.... 

Good luck with the renting as i hear that can be a bit of nightmare too (but i don't know enough about that side of things so can't comment).

Comms69

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

Comms69 said:

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

@comms69 You disapprove of campaigning to remove a feudal tenure and replacing it with a fairer one? That's a bit odd isn't it? You sound like a freeholder or investor who wants to keep the gravy train running. Anyway, my contract does not say if you can buy the freehold or not, in fact, we could have bought the freehold at point of sale if our solicitor had bothered to ask or get it in writing from the developer. We were told by the developer (by law) we had to wait 2 years to buy the freehold which is true if you bought the house and then tried to buy the freehold but we were asking at point of sale but still the same reply. The developer was selling all houses leasehold and 'assumed' we did not want the freehold even though they had already bulked mine and my neighbours freeholds up and sold them to a ground rent investor. Our freehold was literally sold 2 months after we moved in. If that's not a scandal i don't know what is??

nope. I rent. 

But I dont disapprove of campaigning for anything, just dont agree with the aims. I'm literally suggesting campaigning against govt intrusion into private life and private business. 

As for your contract, well who's fault is it that you didnt read it?

I meant you sound like it....I didn't mean you were a freeholder/investor. 

You're against government intrusion into private life and business? The government set the laws and allow private business to operate under said laws so of course we have to get them involved in our campaign (unless i misunderstand what you mean).

As for my contract, well, that's what we got a solicitor for but even though the lease is modern the way it is written is still in ye olde english so makes no sense and another reason why buying the freehold was the plan from the start. Once we had that for £4k we would no longer be leasehold...only problem was the developer sold the freehold onto an investor without telling us and then when we asked to buy it back the investor tripled the price and left us in a state of shock. Funny thing is the rest of the country buying these new build houses had all had the same treatment done, 'oddly' (suspicious) from all different house builders. The house builders had somehow found a way to sell the houses to us by promising the freehold after 2 years for a low fee and then once we had bought, flogged the freeholds on and ran. Seems a little naughty don't you think? Oh well government saw the scandal and the Competition and Markets Authority are on the case looking into how the big builders operated so all good.... 

Good luck with the renting as i hear that can be a bit of nightmare too (but i don't know enough about that side of things so can't comment).

I think you've misunderstood. I dont think those laws should exist, at all. 

The lease is not in ye olde english. At all. No lease has been for more than 100 years.

The point is, it's your fault for not buying it at the time. Not anyone elses. You should've insisted, or walked away. 

And no i dont think it's naughty. It was their asset to sell as they chose. I'll be buying outright in cash next year; no it wont be a new build, or a leasehold; might do the conveyancing myself just to prove how easy it is.  i'll be fine  

spoovy

chris_leaseholder_missold said:

@spoovy mis-sold yes but how do you deal with a verbal discussion between the developer and solicitor? 

You get it in writing before signing anything, of course!  Did you really just trust the word of a salesperson when spending hundreds of thousands of pounds?
I'm not trying to rub it in and I do have sympathy as we all make mistakes, but the government does not exist to protect people from their own naivety.