ParkingEye parking charge for 5mins in Lido Car Park 2, Margate

1annoyed

Evening all

I would be glad if someone could give me some direction please.  I have received a parking charge notice from ParkingEye for stopping in Lido Car Park 2, Margate for 5 minutes 53 seconds.  It may be worth mentioning that the Parking Charge Notice states "Time In Car Park: 0 Hours 5 minutes" although the time stamps on arrival and departure equal 5 minutes 53 seconds.

This occurred on 07/08/20, we stopped in the carpark to see if we could access the beach from there, it turned out we couldn't so got back in the car, consulted a map to decide the next best place to stop next and then drove off.  I had no idea that as the keeper of the vehicle I had been entered into a contract with PE until the PCN came through and I don’t recall the signage particularly alerting me to this either.  Evidently, we were picked up on an ANPR camera on entry (and or course on exit). 

I sent off an appeal via the PE website on the grounds that there was poor signage and inadequate grace period, and this got refused.  I decided to do some research and found this forum and having read the newbies thread and plenty of others I have realised that I screwed up at first appeal stage because I inferred who the driver was .

I live 2 and a half hours away so it’s a bit of a trek to go back to gather evidence, but I looked up BPA’s CoP on signage.  Their general conditions say:

“Parking contract - The agreement between the driver and the owner or operator of a car park on private land. The contract is offered by the signage and accepted when the motorist remains on site.”

BPA’s CoP says in relation to grace periods under clause 13.1 of the BPA AOS Code changes (Effective 6 January 2020) says

“13.1 The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes”

Given the above, a contract has been offered but not taken up as the vehicle did not remain on site and used a reasonable consideration period in which to leave the site, is this fair?

Also, on signage I don’t recall their being a sign at the entrance with the BPA CoP says is “an importance part in establishing a parking contract” it further says “you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of.” It may be of note that when studying the site on google street view there was an entrance sign in August 2018 but this had disappeared by June 2019.  All other signs face away from point of approach, but when turning into the carpark you are already clocked by the ANPR camera before you can even get a glimpse of the signs let alone the T&C's.

The PCN is a POFA NTK and the issue date is 28/08/20 so they in fact issued the notice too late.  BPA state on AOS Code changes (Effective 6 January 2020) clause “4.3.3 Issued via post without a penalty notice having previously being affixed to vehicle: this should be issued in the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended."  Does this make the charge void?

If PE have breached the BPA's COP they have effectively gained unlawful access to the DVLA database.

My next step is the POPLA appeal, and my questions are:

1.  Is the NTK outside the POFA 14 day deadline and outside the BPA CoP a point of attack?

2.  Is a PCN for a 5:53m stay reasonable and do grace periods apply in my defence?

3.  What defence can I put to POFA over inadequate signage?

4.  Can I simply point out that the terms and conditions were not agreed to and thus the action of leaving the site so quickly bears this out?

5.  Have I missed something else?

Your help on this would be much appreciated.

Redx

nothing makes a private parking charge void, we get asked that numerous times, VOID does not enter into this topic, it never has done either

if the NTK failed to arrive by day 15 , they failed the law named POFA , but it is not mandatory, meaning they can still pursue the driver, they had over 6 months to pursue the driver

however, because you have told them who was driving , you lost the POFA protection because POFA only applies to keepers, not drivers , so not admitted drivers

the 5 minutes issue is in the january 2020 BPA CoP, so it all depends on which side the judge comes down on , yours as 5 minutes isnt long enough , or the BPA CoP which PE applied

we do not believe that 5 minutes is fair , but its not our call , its up to the judge

PE have 6 years to try a court claim via MCOL, but wonlt take that long at all

point out anything you like in your favour , signage , grace periods anything, but not to POFA because POFA is an 8 year old law

the newbies thread post 3 gives appeal points for the next stage , POPLA (not POFA)

ps:- Which part of PLAN A did you miss and not do ? plan A is always the best option, regardless

KeithP

Why do you keep mentioning the extra 53 seconds?

PE say you were there for five minutes. You have seen that those extra seconds make all the difference when reading paragraph 13.1 of the BPA's Code of Practice.

D_P_Dance

Their signs are, imo, unfit for purpose and several judges agree with me, read this,

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

nosferatu1001

Are you sure that this is the true NtK, and not a reminder?
Did you reveal the drivers identity?
Does it have the "POFA" para on the back?

Castle

KeithP said:

Why do you keep mentioning the extra 53 seconds?

PE say you were there for five minutes. You have seen that those extra seconds make all the difference when reading paragraph 13.1 of the BPA's Code of Practice.

If you read 13.1, the 5 minutes only applies where no parking event takes place (per 13.2); and if no parking event takes place, then there is no breach of contract-although technically there's a potential claim for trespass.

D_P_Dance

IIMO that a parking event did take place.  

nosferatu1001

...by the landowner, which is not PE

MistyZ

This thread may be of interest if you've not found it already:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5990669/parkingeye-lido-margate-popla-appeal/p1

I can get photos of signage / lack of signage for you if you like.

Castle

MistyZ said:

This thread may be of interest if you've not found it already:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5990669/parkingeye-lido-margate-popla-appeal/p1

I can get photos of signage / lack of signage for you if you like.

The landowner Stour Side Developments Ltd (Company number 03449710) is still in administration.

MistyZ

Castle said:

MistyZ said:

This thread may be of interest if you've not found it already:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5990669/parkingeye-lido-margate-popla-appeal/p1

I can get photos of signage / lack of signage for you if you like.

The landowner Stour Side Developments Ltd (Company number 03449710) is still in administration.

Aha!  Well then the thread cited should certainly be useful!