Multiple unauthorised transfers from PayPal by 16 year old daughter

Hasbeen

maryjane11 said:

I’m asking this for my friend who’s 16 old daughter somehow was allowed  to open her own PayPal account without getting her age verified.  "Lied about her age"

She then without permission was able to log in to her mothers PayPal account and over a period of several weeks made multiple transfers "Stole" to her own account and was then able to withdraw into her  own bank account totalling £1225. The money has been spent on herself & treating her friends.
The mother discovered this when seeing her bank account. Daughter confessed and after a lot of screaming and tears the mother opened a dispute with PayPal for each transfer, which they closed the case stating In their opinion there was not any unauthorised transactions, which I understand is there usual reply to such cases, even in cases where it’s obvious. "Pretty obvious in this case" They did not address the underage account. "Why would they?"
Im asking if anyone knows if the bank can get these funds back via chargeback. The mothers account is funded by a debit card with HSBC "Mother reports theft to police"
Also wondering about the consequences for daughter as mother doesn’t want her getting a criminal record or ruining her credit etc. "She will"
i read of one similar case where Paypal did refund the money to parent  and left underage account with negative balance, which they did not pursue due to the son being underage. "Unlikely in this case if not reported"
Any help welcome 
thanks 

Sorry. But if mother does not want this untrustworthy criminal family member to get a record. Then she will have to rely only on getting repaid from the daughter. In this case unlikely though? As daughter has gotten away with it and the downward spiral will begin. 

maryjane11

CocoM2020 said:

How did she log into her mums account?

I don’t know, but without permission. Mother did renew her password just prior to this so assuming daughter was in vicinity to take note.

noitsnotme

maryjane11 said:

I read this opinion the Guardian in a similar case, where parents got money back through bank.

As a newby I can’t post links so hers the relevant bit or search 

“A parent’s story: ‘Our son stole from us, courtesy of PayPal”

<snip>

The thing is there is no negative balance on an under 18s account in your friends case.  To even attempt to get to that point the friend needs to try and get the bank to do a charge back which might be tricky if she’s not willing to report the theft from her PayPal account.  If she’s not willing to report the wrong doing then PayPal can just say they were legitimate transfers between 2 family members.

maryjane11

noitsnotme said:

maryjane11 said:

I read this opinion the Guardian in a similar case, where parents got money back through bank.

As a newby I can’t post links so hers the relevant bit or search 

“A parent’s story: ‘Our son stole from us, courtesy of PayPal”

<snip>

The thing is there is no negative balance on an under 18s account in your friends case.  To even attempt to get to that point the friend needs to try and get the bank to do a charge back which might be tricky if she’s not willing to report the theft from her PayPal account.  If she’s not willing to report the wrong doing then PayPal can just say they were legitimate transfers between 2 family members.

The account in that case became negative because the parent got their bank to get the money back from PayPal, who in turn took it from their sons account making it negative.

“At this point I was still confident about getting the money back, and whoever had the card would not be able to use it again. Bank of Scotland’s fraud people said they would communicate with PayPal, and, in the meantime, gave us back the £211.”

The mother is going to contact bank to see what can be done. 

I’m asking on here if anyone knows likelihood of refund & possible consequences 

maryjane11

Hasbeen said:

maryjane11 said:

I’m asking this for my friend who’s 16 old daughter somehow was allowed  to open her own PayPal account without getting her age verified.  "Lied about her age"

She then without permission was able to log in to her mothers PayPal account and over a period of several weeks made multiple transfers "Stole" to her own account and was then able to withdraw into her  own bank account totalling £1225. The money has been spent on herself & treating her friends.
The mother discovered this when seeing her bank account. Daughter confessed and after a lot of screaming and tears the mother opened a dispute with PayPal for each transfer, which they closed the case stating In their opinion there was not any unauthorised transactions, which I understand is there usual reply to such cases, even in cases where it’s obvious. "Pretty obvious in this case" They did not address the underage account. "Why would they?"
Im asking if anyone knows if the bank can get these funds back via chargeback. The mothers account is funded by a debit card with HSBC "Mother reports theft to police"
Also wondering about the consequences for daughter as mother doesn’t want her getting a criminal record or ruining her credit etc. "She will"
i read of one similar case where Paypal did refund the money to parent  and left underage account with negative balance, which they did not pursue due to the son being underage. "Unlikely in this case if not reported"
Any help welcome 
thanks 

Sorry. But if mother does not want this untrustworthy criminal family member to get a record. Then she will have to rely only on getting repaid from the daughter. In this case unlikely though? As daughter has gotten away with it and the downward spiral will begin. 

Your ignoring the lack of due diligence from Paypal

• PayPal told Guardian Money: “All financial services companies are obliged to take steps to verify the identity of their customers and the financial products they use. PayPal takes this responsibility very seriously. We use established industry practices to verify our customers at multiple stages ... in addition to sophisticated technologies that constantly monitor and mitigate risk.

“We go to great lengths to prevent misuse of our services; however, family fraud can be particularly difficult to identify and resolve. These cases can be extremely challenging for all parties involved, and we always try to do the right thing for our customers in such sensitive circumstances.

“After carefully reviewing this case, we found we could have done more to support [David’s parents] ... and we apologise for falling short of the high standards rightly expected from us.”

Hasbeen

maryjane11 said:

I read this opinion the Guardian in a similar case, where parents got money back through bank.

As a newby I can’t post links so hers the relevant bit or search 

“A parent’s story: ‘Our son stole from us, courtesy of PayPal”

“The PayPal staff I dealt with were pretty nonchalant about their lax processes that had allowed a 17-year-old to behave in this way. However, thankfully, after a lengthy discussion, they admitted they would be unable to pursue David for the negative balance on his PayPal account due to his age.

Bank of Scotland covered itself in glory after a shaky start. It refunded the £211 – an act of generosity that means I will be its customer for life.”

“ • PayPal told Guardian Money: “All financial services companies are obliged to take steps to verify the identity of their customers and the financial products they use. PayPal takes this responsibility very seriously. We use established industry practices to verify our customers at multiple stages ... in addition to sophisticated technologies that constantly monitor and mitigate risk.

“We go to great lengths to prevent misuse of our services; however, family fraud can be particularly difficult to identify and resolve. These cases can be extremely challenging for all parties involved, and we always try to do the right thing for our customers in such sensitive circumstances.

“After carefully reviewing this case, we found we could have done more to support [David’s parents] ... and we apologise for falling short of the high standards rightly “

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/30/a-parents-story-our-son-stole-from-us-courtesy-of-paypal

elsien

Hasbeen said:

maryjane11 said:

I’m asking this for my friend who’s 16 old daughter somehow was allowed  to open her own PayPal account without getting her age verified.  "Lied about her age"

She then without permission was able to log in to her mothers PayPal account and over a period of several weeks made multiple transfers "Stole" to her own account and was then able to withdraw into her  own bank account totalling £1225. The money has been spent on herself & treating her friends.
The mother discovered this when seeing her bank account. Daughter confessed and after a lot of screaming and tears the mother opened a dispute with PayPal for each transfer, which they closed the case stating In their opinion there was not any unauthorised transactions, which I understand is there usual reply to such cases, even in cases where it’s obvious. "Pretty obvious in this case" They did not address the underage account. "Why would they?"
Im asking if anyone knows if the bank can get these funds back via chargeback. The mothers account is funded by a debit card with HSBC "Mother reports theft to police"
Also wondering about the consequences for daughter as mother doesn’t want her getting a criminal record or ruining her credit etc. "She will"
i read of one similar case where Paypal did refund the money to parent  and left underage account with negative balance, which they did not pursue due to the son being underage. "Unlikely in this case if not reported"
Any help welcome 
thanks 

Sorry. But if mother does not want this untrustworthy criminal family member to get a record. Then she will have to rely only on getting repaid from the daughter. In this case unlikely though? As daughter has gotten away with it and the downward spiral will begin. 

Complete over-reaction. Children do stupid things at times without fully engaging their brains. Ensuring a sensible conversation and right and wrong and appropriate reparation may be all that's needed. It certainly doesn't mean the daughter is a criminal mastermind doomed to end up in prison. 

noitsnotme

maryjane11 said:

noitsnotme said:

maryjane11 said:

I read this opinion the Guardian in a similar case, where parents got money back through bank.

As a newby I can’t post links so hers the relevant bit or search 

“A parent’s story: ‘Our son stole from us, courtesy of PayPal”

<snip>

The thing is there is no negative balance on an under 18s account in your friends case.  To even attempt to get to that point the friend needs to try and get the bank to do a charge back which might be tricky if she’s not willing to report the theft from her PayPal account.  If she’s not willing to report the wrong doing then PayPal can just say they were legitimate transfers between 2 family members.

The account in that case became negative because the parent got their bank to get the money back from PayPal, who in turn took it from their sons account making it negative.

“At this point I was still confident about getting the money back, and whoever had the card would not be able to use it again. Bank of Scotland’s fraud people said they would communicate with PayPal, and, in the meantime, gave us back the £211.”

The mother is going to contact bank to see what can be done. 

I’m asking on here if anyone knows likelihood of refund & possible consequences 

That scenario is a little different because it involved another 3rd party (The ‘Russian’) who fraudulently stole from ‘David’ who used his dads card to pay for a service that never materialised.  

In your friends case the money passed between two connected family members before being withdrawn to one of that family members bank accounts.  I’m not sure if this makes the case harder for your friend or not.  PayPal will obviously investigate if the bank agrees to a chargeback and if they can persuade the bank that it was a legitimate transfer between family members I guess they could reverse the chargeback.

All she can do is contact the bank and make the report and see how it goes.  It may not be a quick resolution though.

Hasbeen

elsien said:

Hasbeen said:

maryjane11 said:

I’m asking this for my friend who’s 16 old daughter somehow was allowed  to open her own PayPal account without getting her age verified.  "Lied about her age"

She then without permission was able to log in to her mothers PayPal account and over a period of several weeks made multiple transfers "Stole" to her own account and was then able to withdraw into her  own bank account totalling £1225. The money has been spent on herself & treating her friends.
The mother discovered this when seeing her bank account. Daughter confessed and after a lot of screaming and tears the mother opened a dispute with PayPal for each transfer, which they closed the case stating In their opinion there was not any unauthorised transactions, which I understand is there usual reply to such cases, even in cases where it’s obvious. "Pretty obvious in this case" They did not address the underage account. "Why would they?"
Im asking if anyone knows if the bank can get these funds back via chargeback. The mothers account is funded by a debit card with HSBC "Mother reports theft to police"
Also wondering about the consequences for daughter as mother doesn’t want her getting a criminal record or ruining her credit etc. "She will"
i read of one similar case where Paypal did refund the money to parent  and left underage account with negative balance, which they did not pursue due to the son being underage. "Unlikely in this case if not reported"
Any help welcome 
thanks 

Sorry. But if mother does not want this untrustworthy criminal family member to get a record. Then she will have to rely only on getting repaid from the daughter. In this case unlikely though? As daughter has gotten away with it and the downward spiral will begin. 

Complete over-reaction. Children do stupid things at times without fully engaging their brains. Ensuring a sensible conversation and right and wrong and appropriate reparation may be all that's needed. It certainly doesn't mean the daughter is a criminal mastermind doomed to end up in prison. 

Perhaps overreaction. But see it all to often in certain families. But here not a child. Can get married. Have children. Vote. etc.

Feel sorry for the mother.

couriervanman

maryjane11 said:

CocoM2020 said:

How did she log into her mums account?

I don’t know, but without permission. Mother did renew her password just prior to this so assuming daughter was in vicinity to take note.

If that's the case the mother is at fault.......tough luck no refund from PayPal and quite rightly so